D&D (2024) Future-Edition Brainstorming: A Simplified Cosmology (+)

[Lyxen]

This is essentially DnD cosmology, just done better in DC comics.

No, it's not better, sorry. It's different, but I happen to dislike it, and in particular the ridiculous "speed force" which makes no sense at all. Tastes, and YMMV and all that.

 

[Rogerd1]

No, it's not better, sorry. It's different, but I happen to dislike it, and in particular the ridiculous "speed force" which makes no sense at all. Tastes, and YMMV and all that.

The main thing is that it is simplified, and that there is more detail regarding it, and that each universe works off brane cosmology. Magic has been codified and explained within the last year or so.

What has been done in DnD supplements, although gone into great detail, fails to explain numerous things, and also how can epic heroes take on multiverse level gods. Such a thing is utter nonsense.

Like I said you remove the Speed Force and replace with Astral and Ethereal. Which as written in DnD are just plain terrible.

Alternatively there is also the cosmology from 4e, which is very similar to both Gurps Cabal, and expanded upon in Champions Mystic World.

 

[Lyxen]

The main thing is that it is simplified, and that there is more detail regarding it, and that each universe works off brane cosmology. Magic has been codified and explained within the last year or so.

If it works for you, good, but it holds no interest to me, it's not D&D. Note that I would not defend the Great Wheel in any other context than D&D either.

What has been done in DnD supplements, although gone into great detail, fails to explain numerous things, and also how can epic heroes take on multiverse level gods. Such a thing is utter nonsense.

Why ? Look at Brandon Sanderson's books which are really brilliant, this is exactly what heroes do. Again, YMMV and it might not be your cup of tea, but D&D is built around the concept, always has been.

Like I said you remove the Speed Force and replace with Astral and Ethereal. Which as written in DnD are just plain terrible.

Actually, they have always worked very well for us as transitive planes, the ethereal allowed a lot of shenanigans in dungeons, and the Astral plane, with Githyankis and such was really interesting too.

Alternatively there is also the cosmology from 4e, which is very similar to both Gurps Cabal, and expanded upon in Champions Mystic World.

As mentioned, there are parts of it that were brilliant, and others not so much, again a matter of taste.

 

[Li Shenron]

What has been done in DnD supplements, although gone into great detail, fails to explain numerous things

I think the real failure is pretending to explain things that aren't grounded in reality

 

[Rogerd1]

If it works for you, good, but it holds no interest to me, it's not D&D. Note that I would not defend the Great Wheel in any other context than D&D either.

Why ? Look at Brandon Sanderson's books which are really brilliant, this is exactly what heroes do. Again, YMMV and it might not be your cup of tea, but D&D is built around the concept, always has been.

Actually, they have always worked very well for us as transitive planes, the ethereal allowed a lot of shenanigans in dungeons, and the Astral plane, with Githyankis and such was really interesting too.

As mentioned, there are parts of it that were brilliant, and others not so much, again a matter of taste.

1. Sphere of the Gods is exactly the Outer planes from Dnd. Quote obviously so.
2. Brandon Sanderson books are all set in one galaxy that I remember. So the deities are not multiverse level that I recall, and Sanderson is very keen on having limits to magic, what it can and cannot do. Now if I am wrong please say so, and point in a direction to get my facts right.
3. Yeah they are transitive planes. But why not just have one?
4. Yes it is, but remember the whole point of this thread is to simplify DnD cosmology, not keep it the way it is.

I think the real failure is pretending to explain things that aren't grounded in reality

Exactly, which is what DC comics has tried to do, and done successfully.

 

[Lyxen]

I think the real failure is wanting to explain things that aren't grounded in reality

What do you mean by "reality" ? The reason for which the Great Wheel and all its little cogs suits me is that it is extremely playable, if you are using the corresponding paradigms in your game (which we are, a lot of people at our tables are children of AD&D in particular, and even the younger generations like it that way). Obviously, if it's not your cup of tea, I understand you using something else, but the good points of the Great Wheel for us is that it was designed with playability in mind, just like Eberron's, by the way, which loops back to my first message here. Choose what you want to play, and design or re-use your setting and its appropriate cosmology according to what you want. My problem with the DC one is that it was designed for comics and that unfortunately, different mediums don't translate well across each other, it's really hard to implement a RPG in a book / comic / movie setting and vice-versa, they are not designed with the same audience in mind and using the same kind of heroes and actions. This is why, for me, cosmologies designed for TTRPG have always been superior in terms of gaming, they are suited to the hobby.

 

[Rogerd1]

My problem with the DC one is that it was designed for comics and that unfortunately, different mediums don't translate well across each other, it's really hard to implement a RPG in a book / comic / movie setting and vice-versa, they are not designed with the same audience in mind and using the same kind of heroes and actions. This is why, for me, cosmologies designed for TTRPG have always been superior in terms of gaming, they are suited to the hobby.

Yet there is a DC Mutants and Masterminds using 3e I believe.
The the main M&M 3e setting uses one that is similar to Marvel's in the comics. Both of which are D20, and in essence what you play when DnD / PF breaks and you need to play higher levels of character.

 

[Li Shenron]

What do you mean by "reality" ? The reason for which the Great Wheel and all its little cogs suits me is that it is extremely playable

I hope you haven't played so much D&D that you forgot what reality means

I am in fact saying that being playable is what matters, and that I also like Planescape. But when someone says "fails to explain", I shrug because
the game does not have to explain everything, especially does not have to explain every fantasy.

 

[Lyxen]

1. Sphere of the Gods is exactly the Outer planes from Dnd. Quote obviously so.

I don't know enough about the DC cosmology, but I suspect it's not the case, the Outer Planes are not only the domains of the gods in the Great Wheel, and some gods don't even dwell there anyway.

2. Brandon Sanderson books are all set in one galaxy that I remember. So the deities are not multiverse level that I recall, and Sanderson is very keen on having limits to magic, what it can and cannot do. Now if I am wrong please say so, and point in a direction to get my facts right.

You can have a look here, it will show you that it is really a multiverse and not only planets in a galaxy (some of his other series like skywards are not in the cosmere and are in the galaxy though). But it is a multiverse, and a very complex metaphysical one with three realms (Physical, Cognitive and Spiritual) interfering, and it's probably not all as there are also things beyond death not covered by those realms.

3. Yeah they are transitive planes. But why not just have one?

Because they behave differently and cover a physical transition and a metaphysical one. One would be more boring and less rich, and honestly "speed force" is a concept that does not make any sense for either, at least to me.

4. Yes it is, but remember the whole point of this thread is to simplify DnD cosmology, not keep it the way it is.

My point is that simplification for the sake of simplification is pointless, designing from the ground up is way better if it matches your goals.

Exactly, which is what DC comics has tried to do, and done successfully.

It depends on your point of view, for me the success is very relative in the sense that I'm not interested in it at all for my TTRPGs (contrary to the Great Wheel, or even better to Glorantha).

 

[Lyxen]

Yet there is a DC Mutants and Masterminds using 3e I believe.

Extremely confidential, at best...

The the main M&M 3e setting uses one that is similar to Marvel's in the comics. Both of which are D20, and in essence what you play when DnD / PF breaks and you need to play higher levels of character.

I'm sure all the 3 people who played it loved it.