D&D General Differences Between Limbo And The Far Realm?

[DEFCON 1]

The article that was just posted here regarding the Aboleth reminded me of a question I've had at one point and I'm curious how others might see it? Please note that I am going to be referring to one of the Great Wheel outer planes, so if you are not a fan of the Great Wheel or don't use it... you probably won't see my question the same way-- which is fine of course, even if you wish to respond in the thread. But I just wanted to make it clear that for my purposes I'm assuming use of the Great Wheel.

So that being said... the question I'm curious about pretty much is in the thread title-- are there (or should there be) any appreciable differences between Limbo (the outer plane of ultimate Chaos), and the Far Realm (an alien plane of "madness" "outside" of the known multiverse)? Because both of them seem to be treading upon the same thematic ground?

I've always gotten the impression that the Far Realm was created for use in modern D&D in order to mirror the realms of the C'thulu mythos-- places outside of mortal thought and existence. A place of outright insanity that no mortal mind can comprehend. Which of course makes sense... the Great Wheel has been a "thing" in D&D for so many decades that it doesn't necessarily have the same "mystery" anymore than it might have once had back in the 70s and early 80s, so the Far Realm (and by extension, the Eberron plane that I kind of feel like inspired its creation, the madness plane of Xoriat) were created as like a new "unknown" or "incomprehensible" plane.

But its existence does make me wonder though what exactly should be or would be the difference between the "madness" of the Far Realm and ostensibly the same thematic location of the pure Chaos of Limbo? If pure Chaos means that one is unable to make any sense or order of anything... how is that different than the madness or chaos of the Far Realm? Why would we necessarily need a Far Realm when we have Limbo?

Obviously, I would imagine those people who are readers and fans of Lovecraft probably have a better grasp of what the Far Realm might be or feel like for them (and why they might be inclined to want to use it)... but for the rest of us? What exactly is gained by the use of the Far Realm that would be better than just using Limbo? Why can't or why shouldn't Limbo be the plane of ultimate madness, with all aberrant creatures being from them instead? Why isn't Limbo good enough?

Anyone have any opinions on it? I'm curious if perhaps I'm either missing something, or that my instincts on Limbo being unnecessarily shunted to the side might be perhaps on the right track?

Thanks!

 

[TwoSix]

I tend to view Limbo not as the chaos of madness, but as a primordial, undifferentiated soup of creation. For as much as Limbo has an intent, it's to "make stuff".

Limbo is Jackson Pollock with an unlimited amount of paint and easels. The Far Realm is painting your gulag with salubrious convex xxyssliofhfsffgs

 

[Levistus's_Leviathan]

Limbo has more in common with the Elemental Chaos than the Far Realm, IMO. In my approach to the Far Realm, it’s literally impossible for a mortal’s mind or body to survive traveling there. It’s the realm of extremely alien and incomprehensibly powerful eldritch beings. Limbo is more of a sea of evershifting elemental magic than of Lovecraftian madness.

 

[TiQuinn]

The way that I’ve read Limbo is that because it’s tied to Chaotic Neutral alignment, it’s embodied by madness but not necessarily in an alien sense, meaning it seemed like a crazy hodge podge of landscapes that don’t make sense in a normal context and seem chaotic, and thrown together.

Limbo

The Ever-Changing Chaos of Limbo was an Outer plane in the Great Wheel cosmology model that embodied the chaotic neutral alignment.[10][6] The plane of Warrior's Rest in the World Tree cosmology was similar to Limbo in many ways but not quite as morphic.[11] The batrachi formed a realm in Limbo...

forgottenrealms.fandom.com

The Far Realm, because it’s clearly drawn from Cthulhu mythos, would be more like Limbo but from a completely alien mindset not understood by mortals. Maybe another way of thinking about it: If Limbo is what mortals think is madness, the Far Realms are what gods think of when they think madness? It’s totally incomprehensible beyond words like trying to describe the Colour Out of Space. You can fathom Limbo - it makes no logical sense but you understand the pieces. The Far Realm - you can’t even describe what you’re seeing because it’s so alien and chaotic, it defies mortal description.

That’s my best stab at it.

 

[DEFCON 1]

Limbo has more in common with the Elemental Chaos than the Far Realm, IMO. In my approach to the Far Realm, it’s literally impossible for a mortal’s mind or body to survive traveling there. It’s the realm of extremely alien and incomprehensibly powerful eldritch beings. Limbo is more of a sea of evershifting elemental magic.

Interesting. I presume then you don't bother with the Elemental Chaos part of the 5E cosmology then and use Limbo in its place?

But your reading would lend itself to an interesting conceptual idea that the four Inner Elemental Planes all drift off away from the Material and eventually combine together and then transition to the Outer Planes and "become" Limbo. A new way of connecting the Inner Planes to the Outer ones.

 

[pduggan_creative]

spitballing: Limbo means "border". It can be a border between the planes of Good and Evil for sure, but it can perhaps also be a border between the Neutral devotion to Individuality, Choice, and Freedom and as it moves deeper into it, chaos and madness and things that break the minds of all the creatures of the Great Wheel.

When the far realm was pushed away from reality by the protogods who forged the Wheel, Limbo was the final doorway, the key and guardian of the gate set before it that they may not trespass upon our world.

What would Limbo be like if the Far Realm was no more. Maybe less of a place of chaos and a place of freedom...

(it might also be interesting to think about the Great Wheel touching upon a Far Realm Wheel one metacosmos over, and the plane of Limbo being where they touch. What would the other Far Realms be like if they're like the Planes of the Wheel? Ironic that Mechanus is a plane of interlocking wheels... I've always thought that all of the alignments getting planes neatly slotted into each other represented a "higher" order/Law over all the law/chaos dichotomy of the total Wheel.)

 

[TwoSix]

Interesting. I presume then you don't bother with the Elemental Chaos part of the 5E cosmology then and use Limbo in its place?

But your reading would lend itself to an interesting conceptual idea that the four Inner Elemental Planes all drift off away from the Material and eventually combine together and then transition to the Outer Planes and "become" Limbo. A new way of connecting the Inner Planes to the Outer ones.

In my own interpretation of the Great Wheel, that's exactly how it works. Although it's more Limbo "becomes" the Elemental Planes as it approaches the Material.

 

[Corinnguard]

The amount of psychic damage from getting a mere glimpse of either plane?

 

[Charlaquin]

I don’t know a lot about Limbo, but is it supposed to be “pure chaos” in the sense that it’s impossible to predict anything that goes on there, or is it supposed to be “pure chaos” in the sense that it is in a state of complete non-differentiation? Or in some other sense?

At any rate, my understanding of the Far Realm is that it’s a place outside the multiverse. An alternate reality, which operates by different rules that are so alien to the denizens of the multiverse as to be incomprehensible. Its own denizens also often seem to be able to alter the multiverse and its inhabitants in various ways, either through psionic power or mutation, or both. So, I tend to think of aberrations (the ones that are actually from the far realm at least) as terraformers. They’re doing what they do because they’ve traveled to another multiverse that isn’t naturally suitable to sustain their brand of life, and use their powers (which may or may not be “sufficiently advanced technology”) to transform its environment into one more suited to their needs.

A mind flayer, for example, is essentially a far-realm-terraformed humanoid. A little alien slug used their body as a sort of biological EVA suit, while mutating it from the inside out to turn it into a more suitable vessel for the slug’s needs.

 

[DEFCON 1]

spitballing: Limbo means "border". It can be a border between the planes of Good and Evil for sure, but it can perhaps also be a border between the Neutral devotion to Individuality, Choice, and Freedom and as it moves deeper into it, chaos and madness and things that break the minds of all the creatures of the Great Wheel.

When the far realm was pushed away from reality by the protogods who forged the Wheel, Limbo was the final doorway, the key and guardian of the gate set before it that they may not trespass upon our world.

What would Limbo be like if the Far Realm was no more. Maybe less of a place of chaos and a place of freedom...

(it might also be interesting to think about the Great Wheel touching upon a Far Realm Wheel one metacosmos over, and the plane of Limbo being where they touch. What would the other Far Realms be like if they're like the Planes of the Wheel? Ironic that Mechanus is a plane of interlocking wheels... I've always thought that all of the alignments getting planes neatly slotted into each other represented a "higher" order/Law over all the law/chaos dichotomy of the total Wheel.)

That is an interesting way of looking at it... Limbo being the planar "doorway" to the alternative metacosmos of the Far Realm. It actually makes a little more sense in that way... because the Material Plane does seem to be a little too low-key to survive actually being connected directly to the Far Realm. Like there should be a buffer between this metacosmos of madness and us poor shmucks on the Material Plane. Heck, we don't even connect us with our own Outer Planes directly, we have to go out via the Astral Plane to get there.

But by that same token... if the Far Realm is an entire alien metacosmos separate from our D&D Multiverse that seeps through Limbo... it makes one wonder whether there are other metacosmoses that seep through the other Outer Planes? A Far Realm of pure alien order that connects through Mechanus, a realm of ultimate alien good through Elysium, and a realm of alien evil through Hades?

Of course... now that I say all this... it makes me again wonder why Mechanus, Elysium, Limbo, and Hades would need to play second-fiddle to these metacosmoses? Why can't they just be their own ultimate versions of Law, Good, Chaos, and Evil, rather than needing to go beyond them, LOL? Thus I end up right back at my original question... why isn't Limbo good enough to be the premiere realm of chaos and madness-- alien or otherwise? Feels like we're kicking Limbo in the shins for no good reason.