D&D General Differences Between Limbo And The Far Realm?

[Paul Farquhar]

Limbo sets a really low bar.

 

[Chaltab]

Just a clarification, the Far Realm predates Eberron and Xoriat by nearly a decade. It first appeared in the 1996 adventure "Gates of Firestorm Peak"

 

[DEFCON 1]

Just a clarification, the Far Realm predates Eberron and Xoriat by nearly a decade. It first appeared in the 1996 adventure "Gates of Firestorm Peak"

That is very true and a good point. I think my thought process was that Xoriat seemed to be the first to make a "madness realm" an actual part of the base cosmology of a setting and thus the designers of 4E(?) took that success and incorporated it into the base cosmology of D&D (for 4E). The Far Realm of TGoFP was almost like a one-off idea that never got built upon, which is why I didn't give that module the proper credit it deserved.

 

[TwoSix]

That is very true and a good point. I think my thought process was that Xoriat seemed to be the first to make a "madness realm" an actual part of the base cosmology of a setting and thus the designers of 4E(?) took that success and incorporated it into the base cosmology of D&D (for 4E). The Far Realm of TGoFP was almost like a one-off idea that never got built upon, which is why I didn't give that module the proper credit it deserved.

I would have to do some digging, but the Far Realm was mentioned several times in various 3e "non-setting" splat sources (like the Complete books). It wasn't a surprise when it became core in 4e.

 

[Voadam]

I would have to do some digging, but the Far Realm was mentioned several times in various 3e "non-setting" splat sources (like the Complete books). It wasn't a surprise when it became core in 4e.

3.0 Tome and Blood has a whole prestige class about summoning things from the Far Realms including a template they use instead of fiendish or celestial.

 

[Epic Meepo]

For me Limbo is chaos for chaos sake, whereas the Far Realms isn't chaotic, it's just so foreign/alien that it appears like chaos.

For example, say you are organizing a bookshelf, in our world we would organize it alphabetically by author's last name. Limbo would just be completely random and the books would change order every time you looked away, and even change which books are there. Far Realms the books would be organized by a numbering system, to get the number you take the numerical value the 3rd letter of author's first name and cube it, except if that letter is a vowel in which case you take the 7th letter, if there is no 7th letter then you look at the title if it's 3 words or less you multiply the number of letters in those words and add them together, if it's 4 words or more it's the number of words + 5. The tie break first involves going to the number of words on the last page of the book, the next tie break involves something else and so on. At first glance it seems random, but if you look closer you start to see the patterns, but everytime you think you've understood the pattern you find another exception which leads to new patterns and more convoluted rules that seem non-sensical but clearly were made with a purpose. Studying the patterns/purpose becomes a compulsion and leads to madness.

That said, in effect they both provide a chaos/madness element to a game and so generally in a generic campaign you'd probably only use one or the other or have the differeniation not be all that relevant.

On a bookshelf in Limbo, the books are in a random order.

On a bookshelf in the Far Realm, fish and melted candles, and the color green tells you what to think

 

[Voadam]

3.0 Tome and Blood has a whole prestige class about summoning things from the Far Realms including a template they use instead of fiendish or celestial.

3.0 Manual of the Planes had a big section on the Far Realm but places it in the appendix on variant planes that do not have a place on the default Great Wheel cosmology even though there had already been things in the default setting using the Far Realm.

 

[dave2008]

So that being said... the question I'm curious about pretty much is in the thread title-- are there (or should there be) any appreciable differences between Limbo (the outer plane of ultimate Chaos), and the Far Realm (an alien plane of "madness" "outside" of the known multiverse)? Because both of them seem to be treading upon the same thematic ground?

For me the Far Realm / Blind Eternities is a transitive "Reality" not a plane at all. It doesn't embody any one thing other than being utterly different from the "Reality" of the D&D multiverse. It is not a plane of madness, but it might drive creatures of this reality mad. If you could properly navigate the Far Realm one could, in theory, travel to any location in this Reality (and vice versa).

So any similarities to Limbo are merely superficial or possible slightly convergent evolution.

 

[Baron Opal II]

For me, Limbo is a sea of Ylem, the primordial substance all things are made of. Originally nearly all was Ylem, but as the planes were created it was consumed. Now, Limbo is what is left over along with much partially structured into a concrete element or form. Even so, there are rules that it must obey. Even in the heart of Chaos there is some Order. Much like in the heart of Law there is some Discord (Mechanus- things still change there).

The Far Realm has no ties to the predictability of Law, the mutability of Chaos, the passage of Time, or uniformity of Identity. It is, wholly unmoored from concrete or discreet concepts. Seemingly Mind and Void are the predominate characteristics of the Far Realm.

 

[bloodtide]

Limbo is a part of the Reality of the Multiverse. Pure Chaos, but still the pure Chaos of Reality. "a state of utter confusion or disorder; a total lack of organization or order. Synonyms: tumult, turmoil, jumble, disarray" are all Chaos, but all a part of Reality. Even something Chaotic like a battlefield and you still can understand what is going on and who is winning.

The Far Realm is a non-place outside of the Reality of the Multiverse. It both does and does not exist....nothing can exist outside of the Reality Multiverse....and yet, "something" is there. Except it is not even something...as something describes something in Reality. There are no words, no concepts for the Far Realm. "Beyond" comes close, but it's only a shadow of a whisper of what it might be...a boundless, ever-shifting expanse that exists outside of the conventional fabric of space and time. It is a realm where causality is fluid, and the concepts of past, present, and future are mere suggestions. You find yourself surrounded by an endless maze of twisted, nightmarish corridors that seem to shift and writhe like living serpents. The walls are adorned with grotesque, surreal frescoes that depict unspeakable horrors and atrocities. Every step echoes with the weight of countless tormented souls, their screams and pleas for mercy forever trapped within the outside. Even approaching it can cause irreparable damage to one's psyche......

On a bookshelf in Limbo, the books are in a random order.

On a bookshelf in the Far Realm, fish and melted candles, and the color green tells you what to think

Or well....

Limbo:
Limbo the books and bookshelf are a random swirling chaotic mix of everything...wood..paper..ink..all mixed together constantly. An intelligent being will will power can force the chaos into the shape of a bookshelf and books. Though some of the letters and markings in the books will still move and flow like water.

The Far Realm:
(no books...no book shelf) Time within the is distorted and fluid. Moments from different nothingnesses blend together in a maddening dance, allowing for encounters with unspeakable abominations beyond words to describe. You might find yourself facing eldritch horrors from ancient nightmares one moment and fleeing from monstrous entities born from humanity's darkest fears the next.

Time flies like an arrow, but fruit flies like a banana, buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo
There is no book....the book is a lie....the book took a bite out of you, not wait, the lie took a bite out of you.....said the joker to the bee...
And never mind that noise you heard, It's just the beasts under your bed, In your closet, in your head
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