D&D General The Rakshasa and Genie Problem

[Irlo]

The question is: "What is the problem here that needs fixing ?" It it makes some people uncomfortable for reasons that I really can't fathom, then let them not use them. But let's not start talking of revising all settings and publications to censure everything which is culture related.

Yes, let’s not start talking about that. Why would we?

 

[Justice and Rule]

I think hyperbole is being used on both sides here.

Yeah, but every time we get these debates, it's from one particular side that always goes to "Ah, but the slippery slope!" and "But we'll have to change everything! Where does it end?!" At the end of the day, the side that doesn't want change seems to take criticism and think that suddenly we have to run everything through it, which is just such a bad-faith argument given what is being asked.

OP asked for discussion on something they thought might be problematic. They asked for honest discussion and debate. This didn't need to be confrontational, but there are a bunch of people who simply don't want to have a discussion on the matter. And that's fine, but if that's the case then you shouldn't be in this thread. So many of the arguments here feel less like they are trying to discuss the topic and more like they are trying to derail it with exaggeration.

I will give you credit: you have in other threads asked for what people think we should do, people have responded and you've been open to what they've said. I do think that your worry that D&D is going to become dry is kind of unfounded, or at least misplaced: to me, D&D is already dry as hell, largely because they rely so deeply on old school nostalgia for their inspiration that this stuff feels like retreads.

But in the end, the problem with these threads is that one side is interested in discussing it, and the other side simply doesn't want to.

Yes, let’s not start talking about that. Why would we?

Because it's another easy way of trying to write off a discussion.

 

[Argyle King]

Sigh.

No one said that anyone is offended. No one said that anyone should be offended. This isn't about offense offered, offense taken, offense suggested, implied, or inferred. No one is deciding anything for anyone else.

It's not about offense. Read the OP.

I did, and I responded to that. (See my other comments.)

As the conversation progressed, I also engaged in discourse which come out of interacting with others.

Is there a different method of having a discussion within a community?

 

[Helldritch]

Yes, let’s not start talking about that. Why would we?

Because sometimes you can find something really offensive. The Vistani are a perfect example. They took a culture, demonized it by using only its worst aspect and put it into their product. Even as a teenager in the 80s I knew something was not right as it was way too evident that the Vistani were referring the real culture in only a bad way. I changed that approach immediately and Ravenloft was quite a different experience with me than it was with other DMs in my area. The Vistani could be quite helpful or deceptive villains. And the good Vistani were terrorized by those that were collaborating with the devil Strahd. It added a much needed layer and put them in a better light. Sometimes, the problem is general, sometimes the problem is personal. Both type requires different solutions.

Here in this thread, the OP has a personal problem. A more personal solution should be offered other than the nuking of cultural references in all books (which would be a general problem.)

 

[Irlo]

I did, and I responded to that. (See my other comments.)

As the conversation progressed, I also engaged in discourse which come out of interacting with others.

Is there a different method of having a discussion within a community?

That's a great way to have a discussion. I apologize if I missed something. I'm weary of all the claims that people are suggesting that others should be offended, and I should know that I don't need to challenge that every time.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Yeah, but every time we get these debates, it's from one particular side that always goes to "Ah, but the slippery slope!" and "But we'll have to change everything! Where does it end?!" At the end of the day, the side that doesn't want change seems to take criticism and think that suddenly we have to run everything through it, which is just such a bad-faith argument given what is being asked.

OP asked for discussion on something they thought might be problematic. They asked for honest discussion and debate. This didn't need to be confrontational, but there are a bunch of people who simply don't want to have a discussion on the matter. And that's fine, but if that's the case then you shouldn't be in this thread. So many of the arguments here feel less like they are trying to discuss the topic and more like they are trying to derail it with exaggeration.

I will give you credit: you have in other threads asked for what people think we should do, people have responded and you've been open to what they've said. I do think that your worry that D&D is going to become dry is kind of unfounded, or at least misplaced: to me, D&D is already dry as hell, largely because they rely so deeply on old school nostalgia for their inspiration that this stuff feels like retreads.

But in the end, the problem with these threads is that one side is interested in discussing it, and the other side simply doesn't want to.



Because it's another easy way of trying to write off a discussion.

I hear you about retreads, and would never expect WorC to do anything more interesting. I just don't want it to get any worse.

 

[Vaalingrade]

The OP clearly made a mistake not making this a + thread so they could actually have the discussion they deserve.

 

[Irlo]

Because sometimes you can find something really offensive. The Vistani are a perfect example. They took a culture, demonized it by using only its worst aspect and put it into their product. Even as a teenager in the 80s I knew something was not right as it was way too evident that the Vistani were referring the real culture in only a bad way. I changed that approach immediately and Ravenloft was quite a different experience with me than it was with other DMs in my area. The Vistani could be quite helpful or deceptive villains. And the good Vistani were terrorized by those that were collaborating with the devil Strahd. It added a much needed layer and put them in a better light. Sometimes, the problem is general, sometimes the problem is personal. Both type requires different solutions.

Here in this thread, the OP has a personal problem. A more personal solution should be offered other than the nuking of cultural references in all books (which would be a general problem.)

I'm all for talking about and reconsidering previously published products.

But I agree with Lyxen (and probably everyone else) that we don't need to start talking about purging all materials of anything related to culture.

 

[Bedrockgames]

Yeah, but every time we get these debates, it's from one particular side that always goes to "Ah, but the slippery slope!" and "But we'll have to change everything! Where does it end?!" At the end of the day, the side that doesn't want change seems to take criticism and think that suddenly we have to run everything through it, which is just such a bad-faith argument given what is being asked.

the reason these ideas get push back is because they have an impact on the culture of the hobby and what is permissible creatively. You see this in how word approaches certain topics now but also in what gets called out in games online (and that has an effect of what is creatively permissible).

 

[Remathilis]

Here in this thread, the OP has a personal problem. A more personal solution should be offered other than the nuking of cultural references in all books (which would be a general problem.)

If I don't like or feel comfortable with halflings, I just wouldn't use them. It's DMing 101.

If the question is "this makes me uncomfortable, what should I do?" The answer is pretty simple. Whatever makes you comfortable. Replace, ignore and never use, put them in polos and khakis, whatever. I worry when the question becomes "This makes me uncomfortable, what should we do?" That is the harder question to answer and its been the one asked repeatedly for a lot of different things.

And to be honest, I'm reaching the point where my tolerance for nuance is being stretched. So I opted for the most radical position to solve the problem. So nuke the raksasha in Eberron. Add a dozen new continents full of people with appropriate cultures. If things are wrong, break them and start over. But just fix the problem.