D&D 5E Point buy vs roll

[Parmandur]

Threshold to scrap: if of the six natural rolls (i.e. before racial adjust etc.) nothing is higher than 13* or the average of all six is less than 10.0 you can choose at that point only between keeping it or starting over. If you go any further with char-gen you're committed to keeping it.

It's fairly uncommon that this threshold is met, but it happens. That said, one of the most successful characters in my current campaign started with an average of about 10.5, proof that there's hope even for the nearly-hopeless.

* - bonuses etc. from stats don't start until 15 in my game.

Both 5E and older editions share that Ability scores aren't as make or break as people seem to think.

 

[Lanefan]

Both 5E and older editions share that Ability scores aren't as make or break as people seem to think.

The big difference between 5e and 1e-2e is that the bonuses (and penalties) kick in way sooner and then increase faster, which makes stats in the 6-9 and 12-15 ranges somewhat more significant. There's not too much difference once you're in the 3-5 or 16-18 ranges, and 10-11 is flat in every edition.

 

[loverdrive]

Point-buy or, khm, an array of standard arrays.

If somebody really wants to roll, it's down the line only.

 

[Forgember]

I prefer a modified Standard Array, 16, 15, 14, 13, 12, 10 .

 

[MNblockhead]

Up to my players. But if they roll, they do it at session zero in front of everyone.

Rolling is great for players who like to be challenged and enjoy having to let randomness determine the kind of character they get and are as happy playing a suboptimal character as well as above average one.

As a player, I prefer point point. I just enjoy the fiddly, building aspect of it. I think video games have conditioned me to point buy.

 

[Lyxen]

If allowed to choose, point buy, every time. I hate playing "ability roulette." (Though I also strongly dislike that 5e allows rolled scores that are systematically better than PB ones--indeed, the average roll should be better, but odds are good at least one player's array will be worse, so it's very literally "hope the dice don't screw you this time, and thus for the entire rest of this character's life!" Because nothing feels like a fun fantasy adventure like being accidentally kneecapped before you even start playing...)

Yes, it's a difficult balance to take, especially if - like at our tables - you like to play really long campaigns, which means that ability score differences will matter for a very long time. Which gives me an idea, but I think I'll start a new thread about this.

 

[Yora]

5th edition already gives players so much stuff for free at character creation and level up.
It's easy to increase your ability scores, and the bonuses go up very quickly as your score goes up (compared to old editions.) All classes get a lot of hit points, and most characters get big Constitution bonuses.

I think at least making the players roll for the six scores that they can assign as they wish is a small step towards helping establishing a mindset that the campaign is not all around their tailor made dream characters, but adapting to what the PCs encounter and managing to deal with what they got.

A good campaign should be about people finding themselves in non-ideal situations that they rather would not have to deal with. The PCs not being perfect and exactly what the players would wish to have if they had complete control is an important part of that. (Giving them magic items that can be useful, but are not universally fantastic is another thing where the GM can push the players to learn to adapt to adversity.)

 

[TaranTheWanderer]

The problem I find with rolling, especially in pick up games, is people might fudge their dice. Point buy and standard array ensures everyone is honest and everyone is on equal footing. Otherwise, with a group you trust, rolling is fun. If anyone has crappier stats, most of my GMs will allow a reroll or a random boost of a stat.

the interesting thing about The Holy Grail method that I mentioned earlier, is you have the same spread as standard array but you can have stats that range from 6 to 18 instead of 9 to 15. More variety and the excitement of ‘rolling’. Even though you are drawing cards.

 

[Lyxen]

5th edition already gives players so much stuff for free at character creation and level up.
It's easy to increase your ability scores, and the bonuses go up very quickly as your score goes up (compared to old editions.) All classes get a lot of hit points, and most characters get big Constitution bonuses.

I agree, but the problem is usually one of jealousy, especially with people whit powergaming tendencies, even small ones, "it's not fair"...

I think at least making the players roll for the six scores that they can assign as they wish is a small step towards helping establishing a mindset that the campaign is not all around their tailor made dream characters, but adapting to what the PCs encounter and managing to deal with what they got.

I agree with that, but if it's a long campaign and you are unlucky at rolling, it can really suck for years.

The problem I find with rolling, especially in pick up games, is people might fudge their dice.

There are so many ways around this that if you have the suspicion that some might try it, just use one of the methods, in particular rolling only in front of the DM, or using a trustable tool on the web that prevents fudging/cheating.

Point buy and standard array ensures everyone is honest and everyone is on equal footing. Otherwise, with a group you trust, rolling is fun. If anyone has crappier stats, most of my GMs will allow a reroll or a random boost of a stat.

Luck is not "equal footing". It's just random.

 

[TaranTheWanderer]

I agree, but the problem is usually one of jealousy, especially with people whit powergaming tendencies, even small ones, "it's not fair"...



I agree with that, but if it's a long campaign and you are unlucky at rolling, it can really suck for years.



There are so many ways around this that if you have the suspicion that some might try it, just use one of the methods, in particular rolling only in front of the DM, or using a trustable tool on the web that prevents fudging/cheating.



Luck is not "equal footing". It's just random.

I never said luck was equal footing. I said point buy and standard array was. Lots of people like luck though, and like rolling dice. If someone is unhappy with their rolls, things can be done to change things up. I personally find point buy boring. Others don’t. shrug

I’ll be using the Holy Grail method for my next game. It seems to strike a great balance.