D&D 5E Point buy vs roll

[Li Shenron]

Yeah, the Rincewood type can still contribute.

Obviously I don't recommend it to the masses. Maybe it worked so well with my Wizard because I am a superior player.

 

[Parmandur]

Obviously I don't recommend it to the masses. Maybe it worked so well with my Wizard because I am a superior player.

True: but in average, probably not going to happen.

 

[Cadence]

I can't remember when I last saw a PC with +2 average across the board. Average 14+ on every stat is very, very unlikely

Definitely. Only 2 in 1,000 are over 14s on everything. Bonus total of +12 has a bit better than 3.5% chance.

But 20% of 4-player parties have a character with total modifiers less than 0, and 23.7% have a member with total bonuses over 11.

And I was talking about the bonus total being 12 better than the worst in the party. That happens about 9.7% of the time.

 

[Parmandur]

Definitely. Only 2 in 1,000 are over 14s on everything. Bonus total of +12 has a bit better than 3.5% chance.

But 20% of 4-player parties have a character with total modifiers less than 0, and 23.7% have a member with total bonuses over 11.

And I was talking about the bonus total being 12 better than the worst in the party. That happens about 9.7% of the time.

The total isn't likely to matter as much if the character is at least decent with their domain: a Wizard with 16 int and everything else 10 or worse will be fine, evwnif the Paladin has 4 14s before modifiers.

 

[TheHand]

We see this debate a lot, but here's one thing that I've been curious about:

If you prefer random results, do you usually then base your character on the randomness? That is, you don't really have any preconceived notions of what you'll be playing? No judgment, I'm honestly just curious.

For me, I prefer the point buy because I usually have a fully fleshed out concept before even sitting down at the table, and if it's going to be a long-term heavy RP campaign I'll even have a page or two of backstory. I also DM 80% of the time, so there's probably some part of me that doesn't like giving up total control.

 

[Parmandur]

We see this debate a lot, but here's one thing that I've been curious about:

If you prefer random results, do you usually then base your character on the randomness? That is, you don't really have any preconceived notions of what you'll be playing? No judgment, I'm honestly just curious.

For me, I prefer the point buy because I usually have a fully fleshed out concept before even sitting down at the table, and if it's going to be a long-term heavy RP campaign I'll even have a page or two of backstory. I also DM 80% of the time, so there's probably some part of me that doesn't like giving up total control.

I definitely prefer bassing a character on randomness as much as possible: as mentioned ulthread briefly, I've had a lot of fun with the Xanathar's Guide life path tables to create random backstories and such. I tend to roll randomly on the Traits-Bonds-Ideals Background tables and hang my characterization on the results.

I often ro the Abilities before I have a solid concept and let the numbers speak to me about where I should go with them.

 

[Lyxen]

If the DM has to compensate (which I've never seen no matter how much disparity there is) doesn't that indicate a problem?

THe DM always has to compensate for things, for example players themselves (not their characters) being quite different in ability (intellect or roleplaying, or tactical ability, or capacity to improvise or to influence others, etc.) or expectations about the game anyway. These are not problems, these are just facts of life about an open collaborative game where fun is to be had by all. This is why 5e works as well as 4e (and way better for some groups), even the much more perfect inherent balance of 4e was not a guarantee that the DM had not balancing to do.

 

[Lyxen]

If you prefer random results, do you usually then base your character on the randomness?

Yes, at least partially.

That is, you don't really have any preconceived notions of what you'll be playing? No judgment, I'm honestly just curious.

You can have a few ideas and still the randomness can spark a few more ideas, or take you along a different track.

For me, I prefer the point buy because I usually have a fully fleshed out concept before even sitting down at the table, and if it's going to be a long-term heavy RP campaign I'll even have a page or two of backstory.

I did that for a while, but realised that it's actually not necessarily a good idea, because it's not as well integrated with the campaign and with the other characters as something that you at least partially develop in playing with the DM and the other players.

So I now much prefer having a few basic concepts and fully flesh out the character by playing it.

I also DM 80% of the time, so there's probably some part of me that doesn't like giving up total control.

I DM a lot, but also learned to relinquish control there, so that (and it's not a judgement of any kind) the story becomes even more the story of the characters played by the players.

 

[Oofta]

No, they really won't be significantly behind the guy that got 45 points. That guy with 45 has bonuses in multiple stats that he doesn't need. It helps a small bit with a +2 or something to a skill roll where he doesn't get proficiency, but that's not a heck of a lot.

PC #1 has +2 to +3 in his prime stat, and PC #2 has +3 to +4 in his prime stat. Their class abilities are going to be comparable.

Better primary and secondary scores, better skills, saves, likely more HP, more options, all positives no negatives along with far more options for MAD classes and multclassing.

Seems significant to me.

 

[TheHand]

I did that for a while, but realised that it's actually not necessarily a good idea, because it's not as well integrated with the campaign and with the other characters as something that you at least partially develop in playing with the DM and the other players.

Understood. For my groups, we usually have some DM-mediated back and forth to get a basic idea of what everyone's playing ahead of time, just for that integration piece.

Thanks for your insight!