D&D 5E Split the Assassin from the Rogue back into its own class

[DND_Reborn]

5e has 13, and that is already too much overlap.

Yeah, I agree.

Getting rid of Barbarian, Sorcerer, and Warlock by making them subclasses of Fighter, Wizard, and Cleric brought our group done to 9 classes (three full-casters, three half-casters, three martials--- my Libra sense of balance is very happy ).

And we never adopted Artificer--horrible class.

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

Yeah, I agree.

Getting rid of Barbarian, Sorcerer, and Warlock by making them subclasses of Fighter, Wizard, and Cleric brought our group done to 9 classes (three full-casters, three half-casters, three martials--- my Libra sense of balance is very happy ).

And we never adopted Artificer--horrible class.

I pretty much agree, but I'm not sure I understand your calculation:
3 Martials: Fighter, Rogue, Monk ?
3 Half-casters: Ranger, Paladin and...I guess you moved bards to 1/2 casting?
3 Wizard, Cleric and Druid?

Something like this?

 

[DND_Reborn]

3 Martials: Fighter, Rogue, Monk ?
3 Half-casters: Ranger, Paladin and...I guess you moved bards to 1/2 casting?
3 Wizard, Cleric and Druid?

Something like this?

Nailed it. We moved bards to Arcane half-casters, just as Paladins are Divine half-casters and Rangers are Primal half-casters.

It works pretty well IMO. If you want to see Barbarian, Sorcerer, and Warlock as subclasses, let me know.

 

[Irlo]

So Save or Die spells?

Examples, please? I'm not very familiar with high-level spells, but aren't Save or Die spells in 5e really just Save or Take A Lot of Damage? Other than Power Word Kill, which only works on creatures with 100 or fewer hit points. If you want your 17th level Assassin to automatically kill creature with less than 100 hit points once per day, I have no objection.

 

[Minigiant]

One extra class that overlaps significantly with three others. Where do you stop? A slightly more fighty cleric? A slightly less fighty cleric? A slightly more holy monk? Pathfinder had at least 50-something classes at last count.

5e has 13, and that is already too much overlap.

Sure if you don't care about mechanics.

I having seen any fan or designer reduce classes without removing or heavily nerfing core mechanics.

Overlapping classes s only a problem if you are a bad game designer.

 

[Minigiant]

Examples, please? I'm not very familiar with high-level spells, but aren't Save or Die spells in 5e really just Save or Take A Lot of Damage? Other than Power Word Kill, which only works on creatures with 100 or fewer hit points. If you want your 17th level Assassin to automatically kill creature with less than 100 hit points once per day, I have no objection.

Mostly. There are very few SOD in 5e.

But like others, I would have a level/HD cap. No Sniping the BBEG outside of damage.

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

Nailed it. We moved bards to Arcane half-casters, just as Paladins are Divine half-casters and Rangers are Primal half-casters.

It works pretty well IMO. If you want to see Barbarian, Sorcerer, and Warlock as subclasses, let me know.

I'm letting you know! I'm letting you know!

(I already dismantled the Warlock to give its things to the Bard and this thread as given me the push to make it a Background instead).

Never had the push to make Druid a Cleric subclass? I've been toying with the idea myself, giving them Wildshape as a Channel Divinity.

 

[Parmandur]

Sure if you don't care about mechanics.

I having seen any fan or designer reduce classes without removing or heavily nerfing core mechanics.

Overlapping classes s only a problem if you are a bad game designer.

There is a difference between "not caring about mechanics" and seeing mechanics as a means rather than an end in themselves.

 

[DND_Reborn]

I'm letting you know! I'm letting you know!

LOL fine, here you go.

Basically I tried to take the core class features and mostly turn them into the features for the subclasses. Warlock was the hardest. Now, these subclasses use my "faster feature" variant, so every feature is gained by level 15. I also standardize when subclass awards are gained (Levels 1, 5, 9, and 13) across all subclasses. I also have rules for damage reduction for armor, etc. so you'll notice the Barbarian subclass's Unarmored Rigor grants DR instead of AC. There's a bunch more (the mod is 150 pages or so), too much to go into here, but you'll get the feel of things.

Finally, most of the subclasses for these classes were moved to become subclasses for other classes. For example, Shadow Magic for Sorcerer became the College of Shadows for Bard, Berserker for Barbarian became Berserker for Fighter, Divine Soul Sorcerer became Way of the Divine Soul for Monk, and so on. Frankly, we love it, but I know it wouldn't appeal to everyone.

If you have any question on it, or want to see more, p.m. me and we can talk there since I don't want to threadjack this thread further.

 

[DND_Reborn]

Never had the push to make Druid a Cleric subclass? I've been toying with the idea myself, giving them Wildshape as a Channel Divinity.

Forgot to answer this: No. I felt there was enough distinction to keep druids separate and with the Anima feature for Circle of Lands, we expanded things a bit.

And, on a personal note, Druid was one of my favorite classes in AD&D so I would be loathe to demote it. I always felt like the 5E version of Barbarian, and also the design for Sorcerer and Warlock were never enough to warrant a full class.