D&D General Is Seven Abilities Too Many for a D&D Feel and/or Comfortable Generation?

[Cadence]

, I think tying combat abilities to class and level also makes more sense.

So, more like 3/3.5/PF?

It bothers me that higher level characters aren't harder to hit--an idea which is compensated by hit point bloat instead (yeah, I get it, I have more hit points so I am "avoiding or minimizing" all those lethal blows that would kill a lesser PC... blah blah blah).

I find the idea of a defense score increasing by level. I've mostly thought about that at the low levels though, and I'm not how much it changes things at higher levels or with using a single higher level creature instead of several lower ones.

 

[jmartkdr2]

As other said, class dependency on stats is unequal. Wizards with high Int only lives on just fine. Paladin with only high Cha finds life harder. It's hard for me to imagine how they could lean on (only) two (without a more serious re-work of the classes that is).

Just plucking this out: make AC not dex dependent (medium armor and mage armor being flat AC numbers does this) and make Con less important to hp (definitely not con mod per level), and you're most of the way there. Initiative is overrated.

The other step is to make the baseline for saving throws higher - ie half-prof for your off saves. Then anyone not a rogue can dump dex and survive.

 

[nevin]

People have tried changing this since the beginning. Perception started out as INT +Wis/2 in a dragon magazine article in 1st edition. I remember an attempt to add physical beauty as an attribute.
I think the entire industry is struggling with what I call the Monopoly problem. There are at least 100 variations of monopoly but almost everyone plays the plain old original.

People like consistency. If you change the rules every 5 or so years you just fragment the player base. Wizards has the lions share so they can get away with it for awhile especially with the mercer effect bringing in so many new players. but I suspect Paizo has figured out that it really sucks when a large chunk of your players won't move on.

So do you redo the rulebooks every 5 years or so? Or have a 3.5 unending splat book parade? Neither solution is really good for the game, but companies need people to buy product.

 

[John R Davis]

Split Dex into Dex and Agi. This works well in 1980 Dragonquest
Dex is arms, Agility is legs. Sort of

 

[ART!]

1) Would adding a seventh ability add a lot of complexity to that part of character creation? Is it already a bit fiddly to take a point total and split it among six things?

It is exactly 16.67% more complex!

But seriously: of course it's more complex, but could be worth it if that 7th ability covers some ground that you're table will get a lot out of, or if it covers something else that you're taking out of the game.

2) Is there something magic about six for the D&D feel to you? (I mean they tried adding comeliness back in 1e). Or does the number of them not matter?

At some point, the number of abilities will seem like too much if you start trying to have them do everything. Otherwise, if they're handling things that are essential, core parts of existing in the game, I don't think you can have too many. Once they feel like they're covering stuff best covered elsewhere (racial traits, skills, class features), you have too many.

3) Would it be bad or good if each class really had two stats that were particularly helpful instead of just having one that they really lean on?

Good, I say - seems like it would broaden out the class

4) What is your gut reaction to splitting Dexterity into something like Dexterity (Coordination/Aim) and Agility (Reaction/Acrobatics) ?

I think for 5E that's splitting hairs.

5) What is your gut reaction to merging Strength and Constitution so that handled both weight training and cardio type fitness?

I'd be okay with this, I think.

 

[LuisCarlos17f]

We should remember Storytelling system by White Wolf/Onyx Path has got nine abilities scores.

I wonder about an Unearthed Arcana sourcebook with a compilation of alternate rules, and this as one of them.

One of the keys of the 5th Ed. is to be easy to be understodd by the most of new players.

Str and Con are different things. A baby who enjoys a good health has got high Con but low Str.

 

[Laurefindel]

We should remember Storytelling system by White Wolf/Onyx Path has got nine abilities scores.

Yes, three is a nice number to work with. A base-three system helps eliminate dichotomic binarity, or at least gives it more granularity. Lots of system work with either 3, 6, or 9 stats.

Str and Con are different things. A baby who enjoys a good health has got high Con but low Str.

True. But in the OP's defense, manual dexterity and reflexes are also two very different things. A good locksmith (or enter fine-motor skills profession/activity) isn't necessarily a good acrobat (or enter gross-motor skills activity/profession).

In real life, all "ability scores" are related. A good locksmith (or surgeon) is more than a steady hand; it requires knowledge and calculation, something that D&D typically folds in Intelligence. Similarly, acrobats have high upper-body and/or lower-body strength, which D&D would represent as, well, strength. A professional dancer is as much Dex as it is Con as it is Cha. But the game takes shortcuts because general relatability is more important than accurate simulation. I'm not teaching you anything here. But as far as shortcuts go, a Strength-Constitution merging is not worse than a dexterity/balance mix (or a alertness/empathy mix) especially in a system like D&D where "strength" is not an absolute (the small halfling is potentially as strong as the goliath as far as ability score go).

As for babies; I don't know... Mortality use to be very high in the first two years of a child's life. It could be that we're just better equipped/knowledgeable about taking care of babies until their constitution is high enough to survive on their own.

 

[MGibster]

4) What is your gut reaction to splitting Dexterity into something like Dexterity (Coordination/Aim) and Agility (Reaction/Acrobatics) ?

My gut reaction is "Groooaaaan, why?" It seems like a lot of unnecessary bookkeeping for something that's going to have a negligible impact on gameplay. I know I've never thought to myself, "What D&D needs is a more nuanced approach to physical grace in the form of separating Dexterity into two different stats covering vaguely similar situations." A far bigger problem with stats is that some classes' main stat is great for all sorts of things while others are far more limited. I'm looking at you Fighter class and Strength. So sad.

 

[LuisCarlos17f]

In the past I thought about to add a new abilitie score: technique. It was about coordination and balance, and pre-learnt actions: dance, playing music, martial arts maneuvers, shooting, disarming traps, handcraft, art. And Des? For fast actions.

 

[DND_Reborn]

Talk about sacred cows...

So.... talk about them, otherwise I am not sure what your point was in quoting me.