D&D (2024) New Classes for 5e. Is anything missing?

[Remathilis]

The 3e Sorcerer had a place, even if it was testing new mechanics. It gave us a spontaneous arcane caster. The 4e Sorcerer had a place. It was an Arcane Striker whereas the Wizard was the Arcane Controller. The 5e Sorcerer? It is spontaneous like everyone else and there are no class roles. It's a hollow, rudderless class. The fantasy archetype it is meant to represent feels so phoned-in.

I like the idea of a caster who doesn't use/need a spell book and instead draws magic from from a themed bloodline is appealing. I find when I want to design a caster, my eye naturally goes to sorcerer. Which is why it's so frustrating that it doesn't work for that. The spell list is too narrow to support many of the themes it is trying to carry (there aren't enough elemental spells for non-fire draconic, shadow lacks enough illusion and necromancy, there aren't enough psi-flavored spells for aberrant, etc) plus you are capped at such a low amount of spells known, you can't even be versatile and are stuck primary as a goodstuff blaster with maybe a thematic spell every few levels.

Ideally, the sorcerer should get more spells and access to thematic spells (akin to how aberrant and clockwork do) as a start. They really should have one or two more subclass features that strongly integrate the theme of the bloodline. Beyond that, I'm not sure how to fix it's problems. I just don't want to lose such cool concepts like divine soul, shadow magic or aberrant mind to becoming a traditional book wizard.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

The D&D dragon has been a natural spellcaster for several editions.

One of he default bloodline of a sorcerer is that one of your ancestors was a polymorphed dragon and you inherited their nitural magic.

My question is why can't you inherit their wings, claws, scales, breath weapon, resistance or fear aura?
Especially since half dragons do.



Technically. it isn't. Rage can be a transformtion but it isn't automatically. The berserkers rage, the default barbarian, is natural.

The fact that WOTC dumps magic in everything 5e is a separate point.


You have not argument from me that the sorcerer should have a monstrous half and less spellcasting.

But we lost that battle in the playtest.
The Wildmage should have been a Pure caster. The Dragon Mage shoulda been a Mage/Warrior. The Celestial Mage should have been a Mage/Priest. The Shadowmge a Mage/Thief.


So the sorcerer allows you to inherit a dragon's, abberant's or celestial's spellcasting Nothing allowsyou to inherits a dragon's, abberant's or celestial's monstrous ability.

Eh, I don’t agree with any of that, so we may as well move on.

 

[Frozen_Heart]

Hmm wonder what would have happened if the 'take on traits of your bloodline' had gone the other way and become more martial, rather than being glued to the sorcerer.

Make the physical traits and abilities you take on the primary draw of the class, becoming a combat monster and not through weapons or armour. Some subclasses maybe having casting abilities, but not all of them.

 

[TwoSix]

That's the problem of any class based system though, you know what you're going to look like 5, 10, or 20 levels down the road. I mean, even if my character has a religious epiphany or strikes an eldritch bargain, your probably not going to become a multiclass cleric or warlock unless you made the forethought to have a good wisdom or charisma respectively.

The only way I could see such freedom is some manner of classes system where you can get features without them being tied to class or influenced by that classes ability modifier. But that stops looking like D&D.

It's not a necessity, though. Look at a lot of OD&D classes, where there really is no character ability progression outside of attack bonus and hit points.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Hmm wonder what would have happened if the 'take on traits of your bloodline' had gone the other way and become more martial, rather than being glued to the sorcerer.

Make the physical traits and abilities you take on the primary draw of the class, becoming a combat monster and not through weapons or armour. Some subclasses maybe having casting abilities, but not all of them.

I would have liked that, though not as the sorcerer. The sorcerer should for most be a caster, but I would have had them have some custom effects and abilities that they can boost and modify by spending spell slots, like the 4e psionic classes but less complex.

The “touched by the power of XYZ” thing would have been the Barbarian, and only some subclasses would have a “you can’t cast while raging” thing.

 

[Frozen_Heart]

I would have liked that, though not as the sorcerer. The sorcerer should for most be a caster, but I would have had them have some custom effects and abilities that they can boost and modify by spending spell slots, like the 4e psionic classes but less complex.

The “touched by the power of XYZ” thing would have been the Barbarian, and only some subclasses would have a “you can’t cast while raging” thing.

Yeah it definitely shouldn't have been the sorcerer, but the character concept could potentially work as a class. Though the subclass themes might overlap with the sorcerer and warlock.

Could even fold werewolf and vampire under it as players are constantly asking how to play those.

 

[Vael]

Whenever this discussion happens, I always see attempts to "fix" the sorcerer as using a slegehammer when a scalpel would be better. TBH, I'm quite happy with the core of the Sorcerer, giving them metamagic as their thing as a way to be both a spell specialist and as a way to show their more innate connection to magic and how a wide variety of magical origins can fit under one class is a fairly solid idea.

I'd expand the concept of Metamagic to not only be a way to modify a spell, but also a way to attach rider effects to spells. A Warding Spell metamagic, for example, could grant the Sorcerer an AC bonus for a few rounds. Some of the Storm Sorcerer abilities like Tempestuous Magic could be enhanced into Metamagic options purely for Storm Sorcerers. Then I'd give Sorcerers more access to Metamagic options.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Yeah it definitely shouldn't have been the sorcerer, but the character concept could potentially work as a class. Though the subclass themes might overlap with the sorcerer and warlock.

Could even fold werewolf and vampire under it as players are constantly asking how to play those.

Absolutely.

 

[Minigiant]

Hmm wonder what would have happened if the 'take on traits of your bloodline' had gone the other way and become more martial, rather than being glued to the sorcerer.

Make the physical traits and abilities you take on the primary draw of the class, becoming a combat monster and not through weapons or armour. Some subclasses maybe having casting abilities, but not all of them.

I would have liked that, though not as the sorcerer. The sorcerer should for most be a caster, but I would have had them have some custom effects and abilities that they can boost and modify by spending spell slots, like the 4e psionic classes but less complex.

The “touched by the power of XYZ” thing would have been the Barbarian, and only some subclasses would have a “you can’t cast while raging” thing.

I believe that these trope really doesn't fit any existing 5e class. You could hint or flavor it in a sorcerer or barbarian.

By the swordsman with white scales breathing fire or a dhampir fully embracing her vampire side doesn't fit the sorcerer or barbarian without either making the class very complicated or harming it base trope trying to make room for the expansions.

It really needs its own class.

 

[Mind of tempest]

I believe that these trope really doesn't fit any existing 5e class. You could hint or flavor it in a sorcerer or barbarian.

By the swordsman with white scales breathing fire or a dhampir fully embracing her vampire side doesn't fit the sorcerer or barbarian without either making the class very complicated or harming it base trope trying to make room for the expansions.

It really needs its own class.

a class with what unifying theme?