D&D (2024) New Classes for 5e. Is anything missing?

Is there a good case for additional class for the base experience of 5th edition D&D

  • Yes. Bring on the new classes!

    Votes: 28 19.9%
  • Yes. There are maybe few classes missing in the shared experience of D&D in this edition

    Votes: 40 28.4%
  • Yes, but it's really only one class that is really missing

    Votes: 9 6.4%
  • Depends. Multiclass/Feats/Alternates covers most of it. But new classes needed if banned

    Votes: 3 2.1%
  • Depends. It depends on the mechanical importance at the table

    Votes: 3 2.1%
  • No, but new classes might be needed for specific settings or genres

    Votes: 11 7.8%
  • No, but a few more subclasses might be needed to cover the holes

    Votes: 13 9.2%
  • No, 5th edition covers all of the base experience with its roster of classes.

    Votes: 9 6.4%
  • No. And with some minor adjustments, a few classes could be combined.

    Votes: 23 16.3%
  • Other

    Votes: 2 1.4%


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The general problem is that 5e could support (but doesn’t) class changes brought about by narrative events like gaining a powerful item.

“Wielder of a Holy Avenger” or “Wielder of Stormbringer” could easily be 5 level prestige-type classes.

I think that is one problem with the whole warlock class. "Being offered great power by a questionable entity" has great story potential, but because that's the premise of the whole class, in practice that has already happened when you start the play. And it is unlikely that a character of some other class could be tempted with such eldritch power, unless they wanted to multiclass into a warlock. I feel it would be narratively more useful if "made a deal with the devil for great power" was a template you could put on several classes instead of a class itself.

Subclasses that could be applied to multiple classes were a really cool concept in the Strixhaven UA, but apparently it was deemed too unwieldy and abandoned. I really think that in the next bigger clean up they should make subclasses of all classes follow the same progression pattern, so that this sort of shenanigans would be easier to apply.
 

TwoSix

Dirty, realism-hating munchkin powergamer
I think that is one problem with the whole warlock class. "Being offered great power by a questionable entity" has great story potential, but because that's the premise of the whole class, in practice that has already happened when you start the play. And it is unlikely that a character of some other class could be tempted with such eldritch power, unless they wanted to multiclass into a warlock. I feel it would be narratively more useful if "made a deal with the devil for great power" was a template you could put on several classes instead of a class itself.

Subclasses that could be applied to multiple classes were a really cool concept in the Strixhaven UA, but apparently it was deemed too unwieldy and abandoned. I really think that in the next bigger clean up they should make subclasses of all classes follow the same progression pattern, so that this sort of shenanigans would be easier to apply.
Yea. I'd say the general problem (for me) is that warlock works well with the current predominant paradigm of "Build a character to a specific pre-created vision"; I just don't think that's the best paradigm for D&D style play.

Fundamentally, I don't think sitting down at the table at level 1 knowing exactly what abilities your character will have at level 12 is a good thing; I think there should be a lot more randomness based on narrative events.
 

EzekielRaiden

Follower of the Way
I think that is one problem with the whole warlock class. "Being offered great power by a questionable entity" has great story potential, but because that's the premise of the whole class, in practice that has already happened when you start the play. And it is unlikely that a character of some other class could be tempted with such eldritch power, unless they wanted to multiclass into a warlock. I feel it would be narratively more useful if "made a deal with the devil for great power" was a template you could put on several classes instead of a class itself.
I don't so much see it as a "problem with the whole warlock class" as I do "this shows why multiple paths is good." Because it's not like such "narrative-event-heavy" classes are unpopular, Sorcerer is also a now-standard tradition (that even got back-ported into Baldur's Gate with its 2e-inspired rules), even though "revealing your magical heritage/innate power" is also usually a story event in literature. The needs of static, written literature and dynamic, acted play are different, so it really shouldn't be surprising that the two differ in how to best execute the idea.

The Warlock, like the Sorcerer and Paladin, offers a character that has already "gotten started," as it were. Like the difference between the "will they/won't they" of a romantic subplot getting started, vs. the "how will they handle this" of maintaining a romantic relationship (which so many authors seem friggin' allergic to writing!) There's good fun and good stories to be had in telling the story of how you got a contract with a great and terrible power, but there's also good fun to be had in all the dynamics produced once you have it, and sometimes it is that latter drama which people wish to focus more upon. Some folks want to play Luke-the-farmer's slow journey to Luke-the-apprentice and finally end with Luke-the-knight passing that final test of character and saving the galaxy. Others prefer to begin with Luke-the-knight and explore what follows after that. Support for both is useful.

Subclasses that could be applied to multiple classes were a really cool concept in the Strixhaven UA, but apparently it was deemed too unwieldy and abandoned. I really think that in the next bigger clean up they should make subclasses of all classes follow the same progression pattern, so that this sort of shenanigans would be easier to apply.
Yeah, I was kind of sad to see those go. If classes don't have roles and are just super-bundles over subclasses, then it makes a lot of sense to me that mutually-applicable subclasses should verge across whatever classes fit the bill. That's one of the reasons I felt I had to design a Silver Pyromancer as a short PrC, rather than a subclass or a feat; subclasses are restricted to single classes, while feats are both far too rare and far too small to encapsulate everything I felt a Silver Pyromancer should have. (I began building it long before Strixhaven was even announced, so I wouldn't have abandoned it even if cross-class subclasses had become a thing purely because I already put all that work into it. The fact that they didn't become a thing certainly makes me more confident I made the right choice though.)

Classes, subclasses, templates, boons, and other things are all tools in the toolbox for representing various themes and experiences. It's useful to have options on that front. For stuff like warlock-style pacts and magical bloodlines, I'll certainly grant that there's a dearth of formal support for those stories where the power/pact/whatever is the consequence of events rather than the inciting incident thereof, unless you just straight multiclass. It would be cool to have more options for that side of things. I just don't want those new options to come along by replacing the options we already have, because...that's just swapping which one is getting special favor.

Yea. I'd say the general problem (for me) is that warlock works well with the current predominant paradigm of "Build a character to a specific pre-created vision"; I just don't think that's the best paradigm for D&D style play.

Fundamentally, I don't think sitting down at the table at level 1 knowing exactly what abilities your character will have at level 12 is a good thing; I think there should be a lot more randomness based on narrative events.
And if that's what you want to have, I genuinely agree that current D&D doesn't support that as well as it could, and that it is awesome for you to seek it...so long as that doesn't come with "and now everyone has to play a game where randomness is dominant." Wanting to see support for something that's both perfectly valid and poorly supported is a-okay. Wanting that to be the paradigm everyone has to use is less so.
 

Minigiant

Legend
Supporter
I've seen quite a lot of love for it. But it's not true that no barbarian subclasses do anything outside of raging. The Totem Warrior gets magic rituals, for instance. Certainly no reason a new subclass couldn't provide more subtle power outside of rage, and just make those features more potent while Raging.

Besides which, I wouldn't want the concept to just be "a dragon guy" all the time. A transformation is exactly the hook I'd be looking for in a presentation of the concept, even if it were a class.

Well the issue is that barbarian gets so few rages a day within the first 10 levels of play that if you tied all the major aspects of your monstrous heritage or accidental empowerment that you don't get to display it often.

A level 3 draconic sorcerer has
  • a resistance
  • + 3 HP
  • and Scales AC
Because great grandma is a gold dragon.That's on top of 6 spells a day 3 sorcery points, and 4 cantrips.

Is Reckless Attack as "great grandma breaths fire" as 4 at-will spells?
 

Subclasses that could be applied to multiple classes were a really cool concept in the Strixhaven UA, but apparently it was deemed too unwieldy and abandoned. I really think that in the next bigger clean up they should make subclasses of all classes follow the same progression pattern, so that this sort of shenanigans would be easier to apply.
I worry they took the wrong lesson form that - it's not that polyclass subclasses in general are a bad idea, it's that those subclasses didn't work well.

Beastmaster, for example, makes sense for barbarians and druids just as much as it does for rangers, and if it doesn't need to be a beast you can justify a pet subclass for everything but sorcerers without stretching - and pet rules wouldn't need to change between classes.
 

TwoSix

Dirty, realism-hating munchkin powergamer
And if that's what you want to have, I genuinely agree that current D&D doesn't support that as well as it could, and that it is awesome for you to seek it...so long as that doesn't come with "and now everyone has to play a game where randomness is dominant." Wanting to see support for something that's both perfectly valid and poorly supported is a-okay. Wanting that to be the paradigm everyone has to use is less so.
I don't think it would become the dominant paradigm no matter how much I wanted it to. :) It's simply where I direct my homebrew efforts, and something I advocate for in topics about design.
 

And if that's what you want to have, I genuinely agree that current D&D doesn't support that as well as it could, and that it is awesome for you to seek it...so long as that doesn't come with "and now everyone has to play a game where randomness is dominant." Wanting to see support for something that's both perfectly valid and poorly supported is a-okay. Wanting that to be the paradigm everyone has to use is less so.
It doesn't need to be literal random in "randomise your subclass" sense, merely that the character build options are such that the character can organically grow and branch into different directions depending on what makes most sense in the emerging narrative, instead of it all being preplanned from the get go.
 

It doesn't need to be literal random in "randomise your subclass" sense, merely that the character build options are such that the character can organically grow and branch into different directions depending on what makes most sense in the emerging narrative, instead of it all being preplanned from the get go.
And that's a good thing - but it shouldn't preclude players having enough control to feel like it's the character they wanted to play.

Which is a tough balance to strike.
 

doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle
Well the issue is that barbarian gets so few rages a day within the first 10 levels of play that if you tied all the major aspects of your monstrous heritage or accidental empowerment that you don't get to display it often.

A level 3 draconic sorcerer has
  • a resistance
  • + 3 HP
  • and Scales AC
Because great grandma is a gold dragon.That's on top of 6 spells a day 3 sorcery points, and 4 cantrips.

Is Reckless Attack as "great grandma breaths fire" as 4 at-will spells?
That's a general weakness of the class, sure. But 4 at-will spells doesn't feel at all "great grandma breaths fire", to me. Like, 0%. I would never look at the base sorcerer and think "this might be a thing that happens when a dragon shags a human".

Also, I'd rather get a couple draconic ribbon features and a "couple times a day transform into a more dragonlike being" feature, at level 3, than wait for most of the time I'll ever play the character before I even get wings.

If there was such a barb subclass, I'd combine that with a draconic gift feat and feel plenty "born of dragons".
 

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