D&D General Chris just said why I hate wizard/fighter dynamic

[DND_Reborn]

Lets face it, those fighting to keep the fighter down are generally old guard players, and old guard DM's generally hate the concept sharing control.

Does that make you a "new guard" player who grew up on Avengers and want to be able to kick a god in the nuts???

This isn't about just keeping fighters down, it is about balance and allowing PCs to shine in their role. 5E's biggest issue is they just designed it so everyone can fill every role, which means you might has well just have one class and thousands of subclasses for each viable option people can think up...

 

[Cadence]

Boy, I take an hour to drive home and three more pages of posts!


Just give the fighters bows and the devil will be a pincushion. If it lands, they melee it. What is the issue really?

I mean, so much depends on the scenario's set up, but honestly no PC needs to match every foe they might encounter.

You missed more of this thread.than you think. I'm pretty sure we've established they need to be ready for Thanos by level 20 with no magic items. Or maybe that's just the fear of a bashed in head talking. ;-)

 

[Maxperson]

Then you follow @ehren37 's advice and make them Thor by that level, and every fighter will have all of those powers without needing to any magic items (or spellcasters in the party to buff them) and be able to beat the devil.

And ability to hurl lightning bolts and control the weather!

 

[Scribe]

or items are better when used by a fighter.

And now we are getting somewhere...

 

[DND_Reborn]

You missed more of this thread.than you think. I'm pretty sure we've established they need to be ready for Thanos by level 20 with no magic items. Or maybe that's just the fear of a bashed in head talking. ;-)

From what I read you should be ready for Thanos by level 11...

 

[Minigiant]

That would be 4 Level 11 fighters, right? A single CR 11 monster should be an 'average' fight for a party of 4, correct?

depends on the fighters builds and the environment. Like you later say.

The issue is that after level 8 or so, everything is flying, teleporting, invisble, castig spells, or worse.

It's not a "CR11 monster" It's a very fast, flying devil with unlimited range attacks that takes 5turns to cover.

I'm befuddled a bit why it's easier to change 5 editions of what a fighter is entirely, than to do a vague hint of magic item distribution like they had in the first 4 editions.

Because D&D DMs don't want to be forced to hand out specific items.

Well, make those magic items guaranteed, like was suggested above.

Also, I think its pretty clear that in combat, an appropriately leveled fighter can fight that devil, without any additional supernatural abilities.

It's not clear. A horned devil can dodge a fighter easily unless he or she is decked out with a themed suite of magical gear.

 

[Scribe]

Like, the lunacy of this debate.

"Why cant I just take 5 Warriors into a hardcore dungeon and win in my MMO?!"
"Why do I need a healer in my party to repair all this damage, stupid game!"
"Why do I need a ranged class for this encounter, devs suck!"

Mind blowing, truly.

 

[Mort]

People want fighters to do cool things. Magic items let you do cool things. No pluses required.

They let everyone do cool things not just the fighter.

So if the fighter needs the magical items to do cool things but the caster doesn't - that's an imbalance.

 

[Maxperson]

You missed more of this thread.than you think. I'm pretty sure we've established they need to be ready for Thanos by level 20 with no magic items. Or maybe that's just the fear of a bashed in head talking. ;-)

No worries. You get to be Thor at 11th level and you get an infinity gauntlet by 16th.

 

[Minigiant]

Boy, I take an hour to drive home and three more pages of posts!


Just give the fighters bows and the devil will be a pincushion. If it lands, they melee it. What is the issue really?

I mean, so much depends on the scenario's set up, but honestly no PC needs to match every foe they might encounter.

Melee is STR
Range is DEX
Fighters only get one fighting style by default
Devil has 18 AC and can attack outside of bow range.

That's the question.
Does the Greatsword fighter always get a +3 longbow by level 12?
Does the Archer fighter always get a flametongue or frostbrandd by level 12?