D&D General Is there a D&D setting that actually works how it would with access to D&D magic?

Vaalingrade

Legend
So think carefully before creating a magic steam boiler or printing press! There are wealthy, organized people out there who have a vested interest in maintaining the status quo...
While I see little to no value in medieval stasis (or pretending this renaissance era set of settings is medieval just to justify people using swords as if that wasn't a thing up into the 1800's), I see a LOT of value in adventures set around dealing with such vested interests, smashing the fingers desperately clawing onto the world's progress, possibly scalding them with infinite amounts of magical steam.
 

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UngainlyTitan

Legend
Supporter
I was in a similar discussion to this not long ago, and someone cited the fact that posted prices for spellcasting services in 3rd Edition was clear evidence that one could acquire magic for gold. There was an older player who argued mightily that such a thing was a modern contrivance and that spellcasters would ("never") barter their magic for money. I mean, the argument is absurd on the face of it, scribing spells, having backup spellbooks, enchanting items, and magical research has always cost money- being a Wizard is not a cheap profession.

But carefully reading the 1e DMG, on pages 103-104, sure enough, Gary has provided gp values for spells. Some of these are pretty significant, of course, and a few examples are for very short duration spells (I can only assume Bless is on the list in case you have to fight a Rakshasa), but the examples are here. Of course, Gary is careful to note that these prices generally require you to A) go find the home of the caster in question, and B) have a similar alignment (in the case of bartering for priest spells). He prefaces this list with an example of a Fighter having to track down a Wizard in a city, so there is a "plot tax" involved. Food for thought, regardless.

As to how common spellcasters are, that is somewhat setting dependent. Mystara and the Forgotten Realms have many spellcasters, and of quite high level present in the campaign (indeed, just flipping through Forgotten Realms Adventures, the amount of individuals with class levels is astoundingly high (I vaguely recall somewhere seeing the daughter of an Innkeep being presented as a 2nd level Fighter, despite still being a tween or young teen!). Greyhawk has it's casters organized into secret societies. Krynn has one such society, and casters who do not belong to it are apparently hunted down as renegades! Some campaigns support schools of wizardry with reasonably sized student populations (I guess all those 1st level M-U adventurers have to come from somewhere!).

However, only Eberron attempts to justify the impact a large amount of casters have on the setting in a player-facing way (and indeed, high-level spellcasters are rare, even there). Others have the reality be unknown to most people, such as Ed Greenwood's "magical cold war", where floating cities and airships exist, but the secrets of their construction are held by a small percentage of the populace.

Individual adventures, over the years, however, have made magical advancements appear with regularity, but the impacts on the settings they are found in are kept small regardless. Sure, maybe there was a magic steamboat in one adventure, but somehow it never becomes a thing.

A good example as to why is illustrated in an old Dungeon adventure. A scribe, annoyed by how hard his job was, had a stroke of genius and invented a fountain pen. He is found dead, stabbed in the heart with said pen! The players eventually solve the murder, finding out it was done at the behest of the scribe's guild, as this new technology would put them out of business!

So think carefully before creating a magic steam boiler or printing press! There are wealthy, organized people out there who have a vested interest in maintaining the status quo...
It should be pointed out that such people existed in the real world also but stuff still got invented.
 


Micah Sweet

Level Up & OSR Enthusiast
Of course you need the raw materials. Many of which may or may not be available. As noted, coal and oil (need for plastics and many, many other things) are not necessarily available. That could be expanded to any number of materials we currently rely on.
I think this "no fossil fuels" line is a red herring. That is a choice a DM made for their campaign. There is no indication that coal, oil, or natural gas do not exist in most fantasy worlds, and their lack should not be assumed.
 

Oofta

Legend
I think this "no fossil fuels" line is a red herring. That is a choice a DM made for their campaign. There is no indication that coal, oil, or natural gas do not exist in most fantasy worlds, and their lack should not be assumed.
There's a lot of assumptions with the logic that there would be no coal or oil. If there's no geological history to a planet, why do you have any resources? Yet we all assume that iron and gold exist and that the former is more common than the latter. Most settings make the basic assumption that the world is basically earth like because it's more relatable.
 

dave2008

Legend
I think this "no fossil fuels" line is a red herring. That is a choice a DM made for their campaign. There is no indication that coal, oil, or natural gas do not exist in most fantasy worlds, and their lack should not be assumed.
I can see that, but I am not sure why we would assume they exist either. We know what creates fossil fuels and of the published settings I know of no similar geologic / environmental factors that I am aware of (but my setting knowledge is limited) that meet the criteria.
 

Maxperson

Morkus from Orkus
I think this "no fossil fuels" line is a red herring. That is a choice a DM made for their campaign. There is no indication that coal, oil, or natural gas do not exist in most fantasy worlds, and their lack should not be assumed.
Fantasy creation tends to be that the gods created the universe, yada yada. While coal almost certainly exists, since we have diamonds and I'm pretty sure I've seen in mentioned in books and/or modules, crude oil is very iffy.
 

Oofta

Legend
I can see that, but I am not sure why we would assume they exist either. We know what creates fossil fuels and of the published settings I know of no similar geologic / environmental factors that I am aware of (but my setting knowledge is limited) that meet the criteria.
Going along those lines why do we have diamonds, amber, emeralds? For that matter, metals, minerals and so on?

All of these resources from granite to coal take millions of years to form. If you have one created by the gods or some other supernatural forces no reason to single out hydrocarbons.
 

dave2008

Legend
Fantasy creation tends to be that the gods created the universe, yada yada. While coal almost certainly exists, since we have diamonds and I'm pretty sure I've seen in mentioned in books and/or modules, crude oil is very iffy.
That is a good point, most settings assume diamonds . I think that suggests there are the correct ingredients for fossil fuels. Though the process is different, the basic ingredients of coal and crude oil are the same.
 

dave2008

Legend
There's a lot of assumptions with the logic that there would be no coal or oil. If there's no geological history to a planet, why do you have any resources? Yet we all assume that iron and gold exist and that the former is more common than the latter. Most settings make the basic assumption that the world is basically earth like because it's more relatable.
I agree, but I will point out that iron and gold are fundamentally different than coal. The amount of iron and gold on our planet was fixed from basically the beginning, but coal and oil need eons of plant & animal life to die off and then be burred and compressed for more eons (same with diamonds of course).

On fits the idea of divine intervention better than the other. Though we need not limit divine power really or assume the true histories of the settings a fully known.
 

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