D&D General What’s The Big Deal About Psionics?

[Yaarel]

Psionics have been part of D&D since even before 1e.

Eldritch Wizardry, the same Original D&D booklet that introduced the Druid also introduced psionics.

Originally, psionics was more like psionic feats (compare 5e Tashas psionic feats), but each edition reinvented new mechanics for psionics.

My favorite is the 3e Psion, which is pretty much a fullcaster using normal innate spellcasting. Its 3e spell points were better than 3e vancian prepared slots, but I consider 5e spontaneous slots better than the 3e spell points. For psionic themes, 3e referred to spell points as "power points".

 

[Crimson Longinus]

If all designers had that mindset, we'd still be using race as class because that's how D&D did it.

But there weren't race-as-class and class and race as separate in the same game at the same time. And that's what we're talking about with creating a parallel magic system for psionics.

D&D is a lot of things, and it can be more things still. Will be more things if past editions changes are anything to go by.

Design needs focus. It cannot be an incoherent mess of separate systems to represent similar things.

 

[Frozen_Heart]

Sure, there could be a psion class. (And also some of the current casters could be subclasses of each other.) There shouldn't be a completely separate parallel magic system for them though, any more than there should be a completely separate parallel combat system for using monk's martial arts.

Except we already have a template for an alternate system for psions. The psi dice system is already part of two psionic subclasses, and would make sense for a psionic class.

Every class has a 'unique' mechanic.

 

[LuisCarlos17f]

Always there is a player who want her PC to be different, in the same people don't like to wear identical clothing styles.

Psionic powers and (ki) martial maneuvers (Tome of Battle: Book of the nine Swords) should return.

I love the concept of "ardent" as a "psionic cleric" for the storytelling potential to create plots about the love-hate relations among these and the rest of divine spellcasters ("we work for the same god, but I don't obey your temples").

Other point we should remember the psionis powers we know don't need material, nor somatic neither verbal components, and this may be too important when the psionic manifester cast her tricks but nobody notices. For example in a party using teletransportation to send some tears of poison in the noble's cup of wine, or using telepathy to read minds and discover important secrets. If the encounter is in a dead-magic field, then if the psionic mysthic is not affected, then we would need a redesign.

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

The problem is that D&D decided that most supernatural effects are Spells, and that Spells use a slot-based system.

It would be easier to have a different psion if other supernatural classes also had their own magic system.

Wizard: vancian spells
Cleric: Healing Hands or Healing light ala Celestial warlock + many more uses of Channed Divinity.
Druid: Wildshape + create a zone around them or in a range where they can layer effect to shape terrain.
Bard: chants working in an aura around the bard + healing word as a feature + Inspiration
Warlock: Invocations + Eldritch blast and Hex as features, ritual to contact patron.
Sorcerer: No spells. Take the invention wizard UA where you can spend slots to cast any spell you want with a chance of backfire. Add sorcery points for innate features.

Paladin: Smites spells turned as CD.
Ranger: Hunter's Mark as features, Ritual casting of Locate X and communication spells.
Artificer: vancian spells + infusion, as presented

then psions could have the at-will mind powers buffed with points.

 

[LuisCarlos17f]

Or even two different power points pools, one only would need a long rest, and the other a short one.

Other idea is the (ki) martial maneuvers like power in the middle between at-will and once-encounter. To "reload" they would need something like to charge a psionic focus. The idea is it should be simple and fast, not only for the newcome players, but to can use them with nPCs, for example the leader of a hobgobling squad.

I also like the idea of spending more power points for metapsionic effects, for example energy subtitution.

The psionic wilder was an interesting concept, but the game mechanic of the physic enervation was not interesting in the tabletop. I would rather the option by Dreamscarred for Pathfinder about the penalty is to be stunned by a turn. That is a bet I could accept in my game.

 

[Minigiant]

The problem is that D&D decided that most supernatural effects are Spells, and that Spells use a slot-based system.

That's the number 1 problem. Slot based mind powers felt dumb, off, or wrong.
And D&D spells are designed for a slot based system.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

That's the number 1 problem. Slot based mind powers felt dumb, off, or wrong.
And D&D spells are designed for a slot based system.

Why? Why point based system is any better? They're both just mechanics to regulate power use and balance effects of different strength.

And of course you could easily have a point based caster with spells, there literally are alternate rules for that in DMG.

 

[Ulorian - Agent of Chaos]

They’re just different spells. They’re spells, but from a different source and maybe a lil weird, but not really that special. Near as I can tell. I am sure I’m missing something because every time Dark Sun comes up there’s a grip ton of hand wringing about getting Psionics right. It just seems like spells to me. Spells with a different but not much different rule system. Sorcerer, but with unique spells. I don’t get why it’s a big deal and why it’s not just a different spell list. Help me understand. Or confirm, it’s just spells With a new name.

Well, there's your opinion and then there's the opposite opinion. In this case, they are opinions about a topic that is completely subjective. As in, there are no facts that can make a case. There's no objective right or wrong. So what's the point of opening up with denigrating those with an opinion different from yours? Just say: "I have this opinion. What do you guys think? If you don't agree with me, why do you think the way you do?"

 

[Minigiant]

Why? Why point based system is any better? They're both just mechanics to regulate power use and balance effects of different strength.

It doesn't have to be point based.

For example, the urban fantasy game I play has psionics and wizardry use the same system. But itis a stress and threshold system. Taking stress , mental damage, and physical damage the more you use your mind powers feels more thematically aligned than "I spent a 3rd level slot to swap minds with the guard". So there is no problem there with a wizard, sorcerer, witch, warlock, priest, and psionicist using the same system in that game because it was designed to.

And of course you could easily have a point based caster with spells, there literally are alternate rules for that in DMG.

Again, D&D's magic classes and spells were built for a slot system. 5e's DMG point system works but it changes A LOT of how adventuring works because of the huge increase of versatility and changes of resources.

I mean... the point system lets you chuck out your highest level spells at double the rate just by ignoring lower level magic. It's far from "just use points". Caster supremacy can easily became a problem with point based spell casters sing 5e spells.