D&D General How has D&D changed over the decades?

[Fifth Element]

Yep, you ran in a different crew than I.

But six tries to get an 18 is the minimum number of tries you get from the four methods listed in the DMG. Methods I and III give you six tries (the former being on 4d6), and Methods II and IV give you 12 tries.

So sure, if you ran in a crew that ignored the DMG, your experience will probably vary from the people who used the DMG.

 

[Fifth Element]

So, the orc that was capable of doing this just shows up with the dice, or did the GM put this threat there?

The DM put this "threat" there, yes. But the point is that a single orc is not supposed to be a "threat", and yet has the ability to one-shot a 3E fighter, and not just a 1st-level one.

 

[jasper]

1E Longsword 1d8 vs small or med. 1d12 vs Large. 3E regular longsword, small longsword, giant longsword 5E Longsword 1d8
1e damage dice by size, 5E one damage die
1e PHB 128 pages 2 which are ads, 5E PHB 322

 

[Micah Sweet]

Can you show me where people repeatedly tell you how much they like something? When it's not in reaction to unrelenting negativity that is?

I guess I just have had more than enough of people widdling in the swimming pool because they're not getting what they want. The unrelenting negativity has just never, ever stopped and I find it so tiresome. No matter what comes out, you have (more often than not) the same people coming out of the woodwork to declare to all and sundry that D&D is dead to them, everything WotC does sucks and why oh why can't someone who actually understands D&D not be at the helm.

It's been the better part of twenty years of that crap and it needs to die in a fire.

I understand how, if you're happy with what they're putting out (and many people are) then seeing a constant cavalcade of complaints is disheartening. Unfortunately for you, I don't see that changing any time soon.

For my part, I was largely happy with WotC until the run up to VRG. That book burned me so badly that I no longer trust the company to handle their own IP in a way I'd enjoy. Since then, they have canceled canon lore (the main thing that got me excited about D&D in the first place back in 2e) starting pushing fey stuff and Magic settings (neither of which I care about) and the new lore they've created just tends to make me angry now. I really am sorry, but official WotC just doesn't do it for me anymore.

That said, I love the framework of 5e, and new non-WotC stuff like Level Up is amazing. Even from WotC, the new CR adventure sounds good (I like CR fine) and the mechanical parts of the recent dragon book were pretty good. I don't like the cover of the new anthology, but that doesn't mean it won't be good.

 

[Ovinomancer]

The DM put this "threat" there, yes. But the point is that a single orc is not supposed to be a "threat", and yet has the ability to one-shot a 3E fighter, and not just a 1st-level one.

I'm a bit confused by "has a 5% chance to kill you outright" and "is not a threat" coexisting.

 

[Fifth Element]

I'm a bit confused by "has a 5% chance to kill you outright" and "is not a threat" coexisting.

That's the point - they don't coexist. But you are led to believe (by CR) that it is not a significant threat to, say a party of 3rd-level characters. A 1st-level orc (+4 Str) barbarian (+4 Str when raging) is CR 1. Power Attack and crit with a greataxe, and they spike huge damage.

Edit: I should phrase this better. In 3E, even low-level threats can kill you outright with a lucky blow. That's the point.

 

[Ovinomancer]

That's the point - they don't coexist. But you are led to believe (by CR) that it is not a significant threat to, say a party of 3rd-level characters. A 1st-level orc (+4 Str) barbarian (+4 Str when raging) is CR 1. Power Attack and crit with a greataxe, and they spike huge damage.

Edit: I should phrase this better. In 3E, even low-level threats can kill you outright with a lucky blow. That's the point.

Only a bare handful, which might be more a design flaw than intended. The vast majority of lower threats aren't. But still, what you're saying here is that the GM is making a mistake of understanding about the kind of threat they are placing. The dice are still not making decisions.

 

[Fifth Element]

Only a bare handful, which might be more a design flaw than intended. The vast majority of lower threats aren't. But still, what you're saying here is that the GM is making a mistake of understanding about the kind of threat they are placing. The dice are still not making decisions.

The point is about the system. In the 3E system, it is still entirely possible for a RAW low-level threat to outright kill a PC with a lucky blow (the dice making the decision). In 5E, this is not really possible. That was the point.

 

[loverdrive]

The point is about the system. In the 3E system, it is still entirely possible for a RAW low-level threat to outright kill a PC with a lucky blow (the dice making the decision). In 5E, this is not really possible. That was the point.

...meanwhile, Klarg from the starter, killing PCs like it's open season. And goblin ambush right before him.

 

[Ovinomancer]

The point is about the system. In the 3E system, it is still entirely possible for a RAW low-level threat to outright kill a PC with a lucky blow (the dice making the decision). In 5E, this is not really possible. That was the point.

Pretty sure the point was that in 5e the GM had to decide to kill a PC while in 3e the GM had no role in the roll. That orc crits in 3.x entirely broke the loose design math so the GM could make decision mistakes wasn't really in question.