D&D 5E Player angry about enemies climbing rope with Rope Trick

[Jefe Bergenstein]

This conversation reminded me of something. In 4e, my Wizard had a utility spell I was rather fond of called Force Ladder. It conjured a ladder made of magical energy. I was always using it in strange ways, like as a bridge for example.

One time we were fighting an ooze that, when struck, spawned tiny ooze minions, so I said ok, I set my ladder against the wall and climb it, and I'll sit on top of it, with my back to the wall. The ladder couldn't fall over, so I figured that was a safe bet.

The DM is like, well, the oozelings climb up the ladder. "How, they have no legs, do they have a climb speed?"

And his response was, "the rules don't say creatures without limbs can't climb".

Snakes climb pretty easily. So do snails. The Blob from the movie climbed walls to get the drop on its prey. Oozes also typically strike with a pseudopod.

Also oozes (other than the g cube) have climb speed.

 

[Jefe Bergenstein]

I hear what you're saying, Ehren, but I've also witnessed some very wildly different interpretations on what characters in 5e know about things. What you describe as DC 5 would be DC 15 at other tables, and characters non-proficient with Arcana might even be disallowed from rolling!

The fact that other tables don't follow the setting's internal logic, or even the rules (which dont require proficiency for checks) doesn't make them equally valid.

 

[Fanaelialae]

It's a low level spell that any schlub orc mage can cast. Probably a DC 5 Int (Arcana) check. They probably have a couple casters in their village/clan. Would you demand a Computer Use skill roll to require people know about the existence of VPN's and the basics of what they do? Orcs live in a highly magical world and likely interact with spellcasters on a daily basis at home.

I've met plenty of people to whom I've had to explain what a VPN is. Even folks who work regularly with computers.

What you say is fine for a campaign where magic is commonplace, but not every campaign will have magic be as common as you suggest. IMC, it would be a rare and exceptional orc clan that had multiple casters. I've created numerous orcish clans over the years that had one (or no) casters. An orc caster being able to cast rope trick is fairly unlikely in my games (since it might not even be on their spell list, and even if it is, it's not a spell that I consider to be thematic of orcs).

 

[Zubatcarteira]

The official rule to identify a spell in Xanathar's is DC 15 + spell level, so 17. Hard for an orc with that -2 Int, but that DC always seemed too high to me.

 

[Bill Zebub]

Would you demand a Computer Use skill roll to require people know about the existence of VPN's and the basics of what they do?

The last time I used a VPN some Russian hackers followed me up the fiber, ganged up on me, and stole my identity.

I complained to my ISP that they were cheating.

 

[Nebulous]

Rope Trick and Tiny Hut are too often used as crutches and get out of jail free cards IMO. The only thing I might have done differently is when the Ranger declared his action, I might have said, You realize that the monsters can follow you up the rope, right? However, I can't tell from the description if this had been mentioned to the player before or not. If he was operating under the misapprehension that the monsters couldn't follow him, and hadn't been corrected, then the woodshed treatment seems a touch harsh.

Level Up has significantly changed Tiny Hut to not be a get of jail card anymore, thank God.

 

[Lanefan]

I see a reoccurring theme in your post were death = challenge. I don't think that is true for a lot of people.

Given that most of the other challenges and bad things - level drain, item destruction, etc. - aren't in the game any more, what's left other than death to put fear into the PCs/players?

The party I'm running right now (5th-ish level, 1e variant system) have gone through three adventures and into a fourth without a single death - this is, I think, an all-time survival record for our crew. But because I have other nasty things I can do to them I-as-DM don't feel like they've been cakewalking during that time: between those three adventures there were two level drains (and easily could have been many more!), two limbs lost, and at least one character was on the wrong end of a major aging effect.

 

[Jefe Bergenstein]

I've met plenty of people to whom I've had to explain what a VPN is. Even folks who work regularly with computers.

What you say is fine for a campaign where magic is commonplace, but not every campaign will have magic be as common as you suggest. IMC, it would be a rare and exceptional orc clan that had multiple casters. I've created numerous orcish clans over the years that had one (or no) casters. An orc caster being able to cast rope trick is fairly unlikely in my games (since it might not even be on their spell list, and even if it is, it's not a spell that I consider to be thematic of orcs).

D&D is a high magic game by default, given the massive amount of risk free player facing magic. In fact, D&D works terribly in any attempt I have seen to have the world be low magic, because the world isn't set up to challenge people who break the laws of reality more often than they poop. The low level of plot busting spells like invisibility, detect thoughts, etc, says that magic counters should similarly be common. Otherwise you skew the balance even more in favor of the characters with superpowers vs the mundane chumps.

 

[Jefe Bergenstein]

The official rule to identify a spell in Xanathar's is DC 15 + spell level, so 17. Hard for an orc with that -2 Int, but that DC always seemed too high to me.

That is stupidly high and a poorly written rule IMO. So a 1st level 17 Int wizard has a 50/50 shot of ID'ing a 1st level spell?

Did they know they weren't writing for 3rd edition, with its bloated numbers/DC's?

Edit - That's the exact same DC as 3rd edition, with its awful system of 487 different stacking modifiers. So apparently the intent is to make magic even more inscrutable to trained mages, despite every other DC being flatter due to bounded accuracy/proficiency/reduced modifiers.

 

[Lanefan]

That is the thing though. I've played since 1e/BECMI and I never had a player die in 1e/BECMI.

That's probably a good thing.

Now what about their characters?