How do you feel about stretch goals?

[Sacrosanct]

It's no secret that some of the bigger 3PP publishers just released kickstarters that both have taken off like gangbusters. Now probably isn't the best time for smaller publishers to launch a kickstarter, but now is a great time to keep planning for the next one.

I'd like to talk about stretch goals, and how do you feel about them. Are you more likely to back if some of the stretch goals are really neat? What kind of stretch goals do you like more than others?

Personally, I don't care that much about swag--t shirts, buttons, etc. I do like things like extra books, minis, and things I can use.

NOTE: For those that don't run kickstarters or do publishing, the type of stretch goal matters a lot. Adding things that are digital (pdfs, stl files) are super easy to add. But when you add swag or minis, that makes you completely re-evaluate your distribution and fulfillment. I am no expert, so I fully expect someone to correct me, but if all you have are books, it's easy for you to use a company like DTRPG to handle printing and shipping on your behalf. You yourself don't need to package anything. But if you add other items, then you're looking at having a 3rd part fulfillment company, which of course eats into profits. You ship them the books, then also ship them the additional materials, and have them consolidate and package to customers. You can do it all yourself, naturally, but once you get over 100 backers or so, that gets really time-consuming and isn't very efficient.

Here is what I have as a baseline--the core options. As stretch goals, I'm thinking of having STL files. They are digital and easy to fulfill. I'm also toying with physical metal minis as well, depending on how successful the project would be. STL are niche because it relies on the backer having access to a 3d printer themself, so physical minis have a greater demographic. But that means running into the packaging issue I mentioned above.

Thus I'm asking the hivemind. What sorts of stretch goals, if any, would you find appealing?

 

[Morrus]

I am no expert, so I fully expect someone to correct me, but if all you have are books, it's easy for you to use a company like DTRPG to handle printing and shipping on your behalf. You yourself don't need to package anything. But if you add other items, then you're looking at having a 3rd part fulfillment company, which of course eats into profits. You ship them the books, then also ship them the additional materials, and have them consolidate and package to customers. You can do it all yourself, naturally, but once you get over 100 backers or so, that gets really time-consuming and isn't very efficient.

Well, if you're doing an offset print run rather than print on demand, you still need to do all that stuff (well, ideally you partner with a fulfillment company as you suggested) -- but the cost of printing them is a fraction of the cost of PoD. Even with a fulfillment company it's still way better than the margins you'll end up with using a PoD service.

But back the topic at hand -- pins, badges, hats, bags, etc. don't appeal to me at all, but they're clearly very popular. Stuff which increases the size of the core product doesn't appeal to me, as by definition it extends the fulfillment time. So generally, I'm wary of stretch goals. I've seen too many Kickstarters get carried away and overextend themselves, and land themselves with a fulfillment burden which is still following them a couple of years later.

 

[CleverNickName]

Eh, they're nice to have I guess...within reason.

It's nice to get a little trinket or souvenir for backing the project and helping it get off the ground, something you can show off to your friends. Like a concert t-shirt, you can point at the paperweight or keychain or whatever and say "Oh yeah, I guess you could say I'm a pretty big fan, I was playing Tunnels & Trolls long before it got all popular." Or you can run your finger over the deluxe leather-bound cover and say "Dang, that is a nice book. You won't be able to get this in stores." I like wearing my "Legend of Vox Machina" beanie cap under my hard hat when I'm doing construction inspections, and I love it when other Critter engineers and contractors spot it.

But it's starting to get out of hand. Lately, a lot of Kickstarters have been pumping out more material and content in their stretch goals than they are in the original product. Sometimes these Kickstarters even paint themselves into a corner by overpromising on stretch goals, and then running into issues with production or delivery so severe that it derails the whole project. Locking essential parts of the product behind a funding goal can be a good incentive for raising large amounts of money quickly, but it can lead to dissatisfaction with the overall product if those funding goals aren't met and the project is essentially incomplete.

(And don't get me started on Backerkit, which is used by a lot of Kickstarter projects in the same way that AAA video-game publishers are treating DLC: hiding the cost of the full game behind multiple, separate transactions.)

TL;DR: I like stretch goals, provided they are just minor souvenirs, cosmetic upgrades, and so forth. Especially dice. But having dozens of them, for more and more (and more, and more) content that should have been included in the finished product anyway, is very off-putting for me.

 

[Sacrosanct]

Stuff which increases the size of the core product doesn't appeal to me, as by definition it extends the fulfillment time. So generally, I'm wary of stretch goals. I've seen too many Kickstarters get carried away and overextend themselves, and land themselves with a fulfillment burden which is still following them a couple of years later.

Agreed. It's one of the reasons I ensure the product is done before launching, and I don't do stretch goals like "add a dozen new monsters", because that adds a ton of extra work to the core product.

Well, if you're doing an offset print run rather than print on demand, you still need to do all that stuff (well, ideally you partner with a fulfillment company as you suggested) -- but the cost of printing them is a fraction of the cost of PoD. Even with a fulfillment company it's still way better than the margins you'll end up with using a PoD service.

I guess it depends on volume. If you've only got 200 or so backers, it makes more sense (to me anyway) to use POD, as many offset companies I've seen require 1000 minimum print runs

 

[Arilyn]

I don't really care if it's swag, unless it's really awesome. I dislike stretch goals slowing down the project. I do enjoy bonus content, adventures, that kind of stuff if it's pretty much ready to go. I do agree they can get out of hand.

 

[R_J_K75]

I don't care for them if they increase the production delivery time. Generally speaking, I'm usually only interested in a hardcover TTRPG book and/or the pdf. If add-ons are going to increase the wait above the usual year before I recieve it, that might be a deal breaker.

 

[Jer]

I dislike physical swag items unless they're actually useful at the table - like dice or decks of cards. Pins, hats, things like that don't interest me (and honestly my house doesn't need more useless junk).

I like digital stretch goals personally - like getting extra adventures with each stretch goal hit and things of that nature.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

It's no secret that some of the bigger 3PP publishers just released kickstarters that both have taken off like gangbusters. Now probably isn't the best time for smaller publishers to launch a kickstarter, but now is a great time to keep planning for the next one.

I'd like to talk about stretch goals, and how do you feel about them. Are you more likely to back if some of the stretch goals are really neat? What kind of stretch goals do you like more than others?

Personally, I don't care that much about swag--t shirts, buttons, etc. I do like things like extra books, minis, and things I can use.

NOTE: For those that don't run kickstarters or do publishing, the type of stretch goal matters a lot. Adding things that are digital (pdfs, stl files) are super easy to add. But when you add swag or minis, that makes you completely re-evaluate your distribution and fulfillment. I am no expert, so I fully expect someone to correct me, but if all you have are books, it's easy for you to use a company like DTRPG to handle printing and shipping on your behalf. You yourself don't need to package anything. But if you add other items, then you're looking at having a 3rd part fulfillment company, which of course eats into profits. You ship them the books, then also ship them the additional materials, and have them consolidate and package to customers. You can do it all yourself, naturally, but once you get over 100 backers or so, that gets really time-consuming and isn't very efficient.

Here is what I have as a baseline--the core options. As stretch goals, I'm thinking of having STL files. They are digital and easy to fulfill. I'm also toying with physical metal minis as well, depending on how successful the project would be. STL are niche because it relies on the backer having access to a 3d printer themself, so physical minis have a greater demographic. But that means running into the packaging issue I mentioned above.

Thus I'm asking the hivemind. What sorts of stretch goals, if any, would you find appealing?

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Is rather see stretch goals that bring more people in to the project, increase quality, etc, than add swag. And too many goals just make my eyes glaze over and I stop caring.

 

[J.Quondam]

I generally don't care about fancy covers, ribbon bookmarks, etc; and usually pass on those if given the option.
I'm very wary of anything that adds onto the the base product, including added "core" content, "upgraded" art, etc. (eg, Extra classes often fall into this category.)
What I do like is supplemental content that come in the form of booklets or files separate from the base product. (eg, This often includes things like short adventure/s for a core system or setting.) Basically, I like items that don't interfere with delivery of the core product, but that can help me get additional use out of it even if they come later.

I really do not like tchochkes like stickers, buttons, etc, since they just end up sitting in a drawer or contributing to clutter.
I don't typically use physical minis, decks or other such game pieces, so they get a meh from me too. Exception: Dice are always fun.

 

[payn]

Most of the time the stretch goals are just nice to have things. I typically toss down my payment for the game/book/PDF/Etc and sit back an watch. The only time I look on with anticipation, and thus willing to toss more money into the backing, is with Reaper Bones. They have so many stretch goals and some are meh, some are cool, and some are just gotta have. Paint sets, add ons, etc.. can get me to put in more dough. If its a coat patch or key chain I dont really care.