Vaalingrade
Legend
The answer is quite clear my friend.
D&D is, simply... drunk.
D&D is, simply... drunk.
D&D 5E How common are magic, monsters, and NPC's with class levels anyways?
- Thread starter James Gasik
- Start date
BAHAHAHA! You're looking for consensus on any issue/element/topic in D&D!?! HAAAAAHAHAHAHA!
Seriously, though, <wipes tear from eye>... come on...
You know the answer to your title query is, "Anything [however "common"] you want or need for the given game/campaign." Right?
Of all the various topics, this could possibly be the one with the broadest swing, because it goes to the very fabric/structure of the setting world...so sits at the very foundational bedrock of the game, itself. So, you're never going to find common agreement among all settings for all gamers.
For me/my homebrew setting:
Magic: Magic is everywhere. But there are different levels of magic in different regions of the setting. You can be somewhere that high level magic hasn't been seen or only exists in their legends of decades to ages ago. You can be elsewhere that high level magic is expected and if you're not a caster (or at least student!) of some kind of magic, you're going to be looked down upon. There are different kinds of magic, where you might be seen as odd or dangerous to be a mage or [gods forfend!] a psychic, but hailed and praised as a cleric or druid, and vice versa.
Monsters: Monsters are everywhere. Again, different critters are different places. Is every land you walk into going to have a dragon sleeping on a giant treasure hoard under that mountain over there? Certainly not. Will there be a story claiming that from some centuries ago? Yeah, probably. The only "ubiquitous" creatures would be those "most common" foe types. Kobolds and goblins you are probably going to find just about anywhere. Even orcs, in my world, I've sequestered into the mountains and caves/caverns/shallow subterranean dwellers. Raids happen into areas adjacent, but you're not going to find an orc around every corner of every forest or dungeon. You're not going to find a troll (openly) stolling down a fortified town street. But there might be cautions/notices (and bounties) about one that was seen at some farmstead not far from (in fact, far too close to) the town. Want to catch and train a griffon as your mount? Better go find some royal elves or fae nobility to tell you where they get theirs (They're definitely not selling you any of their domesticated ones!). Otherwise, you can look at these pretty pictures. I heard there was one seen from the walls of Ablidon over the Whitegull Bay some years back.
Classed NPCs: Same answer. They can be common. They can be disturbingly rare. It depends where you are. You could be in a village with a middling level mage/witch/druid "healer/potion maker/apothecary." You could be in a bustling trade town with noone over a 2nd level thief in the local gang (trying to make themselves into a "guild."). You could be in a shipping hub with archmages and world renowned warlords coming and going at any given moment. Or some ridiculously high level priest who just happens to be living his best life at a secluded shrine, all on his own. He's renowned as a healer and exorcist of evil demons by the local folk, who are clearly a very superstitious lot. But no one really knows of just how [truly] powerful he is.
It just depends. Where is the particular campaign taking place (and will it stay there or move to other regions)? What are the needs of the particular party (as far as the degree of challenge to produce fun)? What are the flavor preferences or general "mood" one is going for in a particular campaign, or singular session/section of the game? A "save the princess who disappeared in the faerie wood" is going to play and contain very different degrees of all of these things than the "party must infiltrate and bring to justice the problematic bandit gang between towns."
If I want to do a "gothy/halloweeny/horror-ish genre" section to a story, that's going to involve very different monsters and magic and NPCs, than a "seek out the Lost MacGuffin of Unknown Wildland and save the kingdom from invasion." Or a few sessions (or entire campaign) of courtly intrigue and murder mystery in the Duke's castle. Or a party that just wants to seek out the fame and glory (and buckets of treasure) surviving the "Dungeon Delve of Doom."
(Personal Side Note, here, I am not sure where there are town guards who can easily take down a group of 7th level adventurers. Other than, like, an honor guard for monarchs or temple high priest with a bunch of mid-level underclerics or something like that. I can't imagine some "joe normal soldiers" or your average "town constabulary" from Commonfolkville being able to pin down -much less defeat or detain- a party of 7th level guys. But, then, that too would be a sheer matter of preferences of game/play style and flavor.)
Seriously, though, <wipes tear from eye>... come on...
You know the answer to your title query is, "Anything [however "common"] you want or need for the given game/campaign." Right?
Of all the various topics, this could possibly be the one with the broadest swing, because it goes to the very fabric/structure of the setting world...so sits at the very foundational bedrock of the game, itself. So, you're never going to find common agreement among all settings for all gamers.
For me/my homebrew setting:
Magic: Magic is everywhere. But there are different levels of magic in different regions of the setting. You can be somewhere that high level magic hasn't been seen or only exists in their legends of decades to ages ago. You can be elsewhere that high level magic is expected and if you're not a caster (or at least student!) of some kind of magic, you're going to be looked down upon. There are different kinds of magic, where you might be seen as odd or dangerous to be a mage or [gods forfend!] a psychic, but hailed and praised as a cleric or druid, and vice versa.
Monsters: Monsters are everywhere. Again, different critters are different places. Is every land you walk into going to have a dragon sleeping on a giant treasure hoard under that mountain over there? Certainly not. Will there be a story claiming that from some centuries ago? Yeah, probably. The only "ubiquitous" creatures would be those "most common" foe types. Kobolds and goblins you are probably going to find just about anywhere. Even orcs, in my world, I've sequestered into the mountains and caves/caverns/shallow subterranean dwellers. Raids happen into areas adjacent, but you're not going to find an orc around every corner of every forest or dungeon. You're not going to find a troll (openly) stolling down a fortified town street. But there might be cautions/notices (and bounties) about one that was seen at some farmstead not far from (in fact, far too close to) the town. Want to catch and train a griffon as your mount? Better go find some royal elves or fae nobility to tell you where they get theirs (They're definitely not selling you any of their domesticated ones!). Otherwise, you can look at these pretty pictures. I heard there was one seen from the walls of Ablidon over the Whitegull Bay some years back.
Classed NPCs: Same answer. They can be common. They can be disturbingly rare. It depends where you are. You could be in a village with a middling level mage/witch/druid "healer/potion maker/apothecary." You could be in a bustling trade town with noone over a 2nd level thief in the local gang (trying to make themselves into a "guild."). You could be in a shipping hub with archmages and world renowned warlords coming and going at any given moment. Or some ridiculously high level priest who just happens to be living his best life at a secluded shrine, all on his own. He's renowned as a healer and exorcist of evil demons by the local folk, who are clearly a very superstitious lot. But no one really knows of just how [truly] powerful he is.
It just depends. Where is the particular campaign taking place (and will it stay there or move to other regions)? What are the needs of the particular party (as far as the degree of challenge to produce fun)? What are the flavor preferences or general "mood" one is going for in a particular campaign, or singular session/section of the game? A "save the princess who disappeared in the faerie wood" is going to play and contain very different degrees of all of these things than the "party must infiltrate and bring to justice the problematic bandit gang between towns."
If I want to do a "gothy/halloweeny/horror-ish genre" section to a story, that's going to involve very different monsters and magic and NPCs, than a "seek out the Lost MacGuffin of Unknown Wildland and save the kingdom from invasion." Or a few sessions (or entire campaign) of courtly intrigue and murder mystery in the Duke's castle. Or a party that just wants to seek out the fame and glory (and buckets of treasure) surviving the "Dungeon Delve of Doom."
(Personal Side Note, here, I am not sure where there are town guards who can easily take down a group of 7th level adventurers. Other than, like, an honor guard for monarchs or temple high priest with a bunch of mid-level underclerics or something like that. I can't imagine some "joe normal soldiers" or your average "town constabulary" from Commonfolkville being able to pin down -much less defeat or detain- a party of 7th level guys. But, then, that too would be a sheer matter of preferences of game/play style and flavor.)
(Psi)SeveredHead
Adventurer
The 3.0 product Enemies and Allies had a guard unit who could probably take on 7th-level PCs.
1. The guard commander was a veteran.
2. This was a special force acting like a "SWAT Team".
3. The book pointed out that these NPCs could ask for help (eg hire more powerful NPCs).
1. The guard commander was a veteran.
2. This was a special force acting like a "SWAT Team".
3. The book pointed out that these NPCs could ask for help (eg hire more powerful NPCs).
No, you won't. And this is one of the strengths of 5e as a game actually. Every campaign is going to have assumptions about these things that fit with what that campaign is supposed to "feel" like and the system still works pretty much as written.
People write a lot about trying to suss out a "default setting" from the core rulebooks. I think up through 4e you could use this approach and come up with a consensus on these things - in fact, in 3e you'd find many of those expectations written up in the DMG (and is why it had things like the Commoner class for NPCs). In 5e I think it's a fool's errand - the game is too flexible in the kinds of games it's trying to support to dictate things at that level. The designers of 5e were trying to make it the edition that everyone could agree was D&D - and if that's your design target you aren't going to have the kind of easily agreeable assumptions that you're talking about.
Weiley31
Legend
Some players "insist" that the PCs are the only unique outlier within the whole "world" of the campaign. That no other "heroes" exist outside of the world, which is supposedly only shaped by the PCs. Of course, all tables play different. Perhaps they are the only ones. That all the world is a stage in which only the PCs may dance upon. Ignoring the shakers and movers who made the kingdoms and what not the PCs can frolic and murder hobo with glee with their edgy 20 page backstories and dice rolling hamsters.
But no matter what, there will be no consensus because everybody rolls differently at their table. Take guns: goodness all this talk about realistic guns/how to replicate how to be more power when all ya need is just sit down, roll that 1D10 for your pepperbox, and hope ya hit a crit and not misfire.
For me, there are others in the world and not just the PCs. So the highest leveled NPC that is an established adventurer at my table is level 10 basically. Such characters are usually not just a random villager. Only characters of importance or other main important NPC will have class levels.
But no matter what, there will be no consensus because everybody rolls differently at their table. Take guns: goodness all this talk about realistic guns/how to replicate how to be more power when all ya need is just sit down, roll that 1D10 for your pepperbox, and hope ya hit a crit and not misfire.
For me, there are others in the world and not just the PCs. So the highest leveled NPC that is an established adventurer at my table is level 10 basically. Such characters are usually not just a random villager. Only characters of importance or other main important NPC will have class levels.
Uni-the-Unicorn!
Hero
No, and it we shouldn’t be trying. I think everyone’s worlds should be different and not worry about everyone else’s worlds
J.Quondam
CR 1/8
Heck, almost none of my own settings have consensus.
Vaalingrade
Legend
Or tell you you're doing it wrong because five hundred years ago, there was this Dragon article that...
And then you wake up in hospital because you fell asleep and banged your head on the edge of your desk.
RoughCoronet0
Dragon Lover
I don’t think a consensus can be reached because many of us play D&D differently from others.
In my world, many npcs and monsters have various class and subclass levels/features. They aren’t fully stated like a PC but often have some defining features from different classes and subclasses.
I even have some npcs that are the equivalent of 20th level characters running around. Most are the chosen of certain gods. What makes them different from the PCs is that those npcs are connected to different organizations or follow a particular entity that they work for and serve in some capacity. PCs are typically free to do whatever unless they chose to align themselves with others.
In my world, many npcs and monsters have various class and subclass levels/features. They aren’t fully stated like a PC but often have some defining features from different classes and subclasses.
I even have some npcs that are the equivalent of 20th level characters running around. Most are the chosen of certain gods. What makes them different from the PCs is that those npcs are connected to different organizations or follow a particular entity that they work for and serve in some capacity. PCs are typically free to do whatever unless they chose to align themselves with others.
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