OSR I never should have picked up Old School Essentials…

[Mannahnin]

I’ve recently cooled down on OSE Advanced Fantasy a little. More and more I see how, with just the core Basic classes, I can just tweak to make any of those character concepts.

It also easily lends itself to design of new classes if the core 7 ever get old. James V. West's Black Pudding zine is stuffed with fun ones, for example. Or the stack of 20 or so interesting free ones from Against the Wicked City. Against The Wicked City

Or that whole article about how to design your own from Dragon issue 109.

 

[deganawida]

It also easily lends itself to design of new classes if the core 7 ever get old. James V. West's Black Pudding zine is stuffed with fun ones, for example. Or the stack of 20 or so interesting free ones from Against the Wicked City. Against The Wicked City

Or that whole article about how to design your own from Dragon issue 109.

I was going to go that route but my wife and daughters would have killed me for not letting them be halfling bards or elven druids and so forth. I could have modified, but, eh, it gave me an excuse to buy more books and support Necrotic Gnome, so....

 

[John Desmarais]

How does it compare to say The Rules Cyclopedia, ease of play wise?

The RC was probably my favorite ‘official’ D&D ever published, but I think OSE is easier to read and (more importantly in play) easier to find things quickly in. That said, RC was really BECMI in one book while OSE is B/X - so there are differences. RC has ‘more’ than OSE.

(The sad part is that I currently play with a bunch of folks who really got their start later than I did, so they’re more accustomed to D&D3 - OSE feels too light for them. Sigh!)

 

[Malmuria]

Exalted Funeral is having a storewide 20% sale today, including Necrotic Gnome products

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The Essential Old-School Fantasy RPG! Old-School Essentials is a role-playing game of fantastic adventure, monsters, and magic! Simple, robust rules: Old-School Essentials has light, easily modified rules, putting the focus of play on shared imagination, improvisation, and fun. Easy to learn and...

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[deganawida]

I’ve recently cooled down on OSE Advanced Fantasy a little. More and more I see how, with just the core Basic classes, I can just tweak to make any of those character concepts.

But yeah, B/X is my favorite D&D and OSE is my favorite implementation of it.

It is a fantastic game and I hope it gets more and more support and popularity.

Having now received the Advanced Fantasy Referee's Tome, and having perused it, I find myself agreeing with you even more. While AF is really well done, and while I do not regret my purchase at all, I think that the game works best with just 3-4 classes (not counting race-as-class) to cover each major approach to adventuring. Those approaches to adventuring serve best as archetypes for problem solving. I'd go so far as to say that additional classes dilute the archetypes, leading to a need for more classes to cover the now-diluted archetypes.

As you mentioned, tweaking the basic classes is a much better approach, and, given the way characters are revealed/developed through play, can be done as a reward or recognition for how the character is being played, instead of starting with it.

 

[Mannahnin]

As you mentioned, tweaking the basic classes is a much better approach, and, given the way characters are revealed/developed through play, can be done as a reward or recognition for how the character is being played, instead of starting with it.

This reminds me of a cool Retroactive Backstory table I've used in my ongoing 5TD campaign to fill in little bits of character and give fun little abilities to the PCs when they gain levels:

1d100 Retroactive Backstory

Update: Erika Muse/Arivia over at The Ice Queen's Throne has this improved version for Labyrinth Lord . Changes some of the more niche...

tenfootpolemic.blogspot.com

 

[John Desmarais]

Having now received the Advanced Fantasy Referee's Tome, and having perused it, I find myself agreeing with you even more. While AF is really well done, and while I do not regret my purchase at all, I think that the game works best with just 3-4 classes (not counting race-as-class) to cover each major approach to adventuring. Those approaches to adventuring serve best as archetypes for problem solving. I'd go so far as to say that additional classes dilute the archetypes, leading to a need for more classes to cover the now-diluted archetypes.

As you mentioned, tweaking the basic classes is a much better approach, and, given the way characters are revealed/developed through play, can be done as a reward or recognition for how the character is being played, instead of starting with it.

Advanced makes for an adequate (possibly superior) AD&D workalike, while staying more B/X compatible that AD&D itself was. I've had good experiences letting players who wanted to build their characters using OSE/AF and using them in OSE games with no obvious disparity. Also, I think if I were making an intentional plan to run one or more of the old AD&D classic modules as a campaign, I'd use OSE/AF (specifically, the monsters and treasure tables) instead of OSE - but still let the-layers choose whether they build PCs using OSE or OSE/AF.

 

[deganawida]

Advanced makes for an adequate (possibly superior) AD&D workalike, while staying more B/X compatible that AD&D itself was. I've had good experiences letting players who wanted to build their characters using OSE/AF and using them in OSE games with no obvious disparity. Also, I think if I were making an intentional plan to run one or more of the old AD&D classic modules as a campaign, I'd use OSE/AF (specifically, the monsters and treasure tables) instead of OSE - but still let the-layers choose whether they build PCs using OSE or OSE/AF.

Oh, not saying that there is anything wrong with the AF classes. I just have come to feel that D&D style gaming works best with more limited archetypes, customized to the character, than with "fighter, fighter with divine spells, fighter who can't use magic, fighter who charges, and fighter who doesn't get lost and has animal connections".

 

[kenada]

I’ve also cooled a bit on advanced fantasy. Some of the conversion seem more like a direct import of AD&D rules into OSE even when they reference things in ways that B/X doesn’t really do. Spells in particular stick out for using saving throw categories other than spells (and occasionally death). Some of the combat options are also dubious. Weapon proficiencies are just … no.

 

[Musing Mage]

I’ve also cooled a bit on advanced fantasy. Some of the conversion seem more like a direct import of AD&D rules into OSE even when they reference things in ways that B/X doesn’t really do. Spells in particular stick out for using saving throw categories other than spells (and occasionally death). Some of the combat options are also dubious. Weapon proficiencies are just … no.

I am curious to persue it, I don't yet have the books... but this seems in line even with the old BECMI Companion and Master sets which added options akin to AD&D but didn't quite seem 'right.'

It would seem that the B/X/BECMI/OSE systems really shine with just the Basic/Expert level stuff without too many trimmings.