D&D 5E D&D and who it's aimed at

Micah Sweet

Level Up & OSR Enthusiast
In my experience owlfolk and warforged are the new common races.

And none of my players are under 30.
Yeah see, my love for traditional fantasy has never faded over the years (I'm such a Tolkien enthusiast I follow scholarly work on the subject, for example), but at least half of my players are similar to yours in their preferences. It can be quite frustrating.
 

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Yeah see, my love for traditional fantasy has never faded over the years (I'm such a Tolkien enthusiast I follow scholarly work on the subject, for example), but at least half of my players are similar to yours in their preferences. It can be quite frustrating.
I think as DM you derive your enjoyment from the players, so you have to go with what they like, not what you like. I don't much care for anime, but I know several of my players do, so I make a point of researching and referencing it. Tolkien's chum Lewis had owlfolk in his books anyway.
 

I think as DM you derive your enjoyment from the players, so you have to go with what they like, not what you like. I don't much care for anime, but I know several of my players do, so I make a point of researching and referencing it. Tolkien's chum Lewis had owlfolk in his books anyway.
Man, I dunno where you are in the UK but if ever end up in one of your campaigns, I suspect you will be a very, very good DM from this kind of thing.

But yeah spot-on.

Yeah see, my love for traditional fantasy has never faded over the years (I'm such a Tolkien enthusiast I follow scholarly work on the subject, for example), but at least half of my players are similar to yours in their preferences. It can be quite frustrating.
I get it, I mean, honestly, if it was just up to me, we'd basically be running either "Angsty wizards face moral dilemmas" or "Hot barbarians kill slavers and other bad people"-type stuff in fantasy (I know those are very opposing genres - basically Sparrowhawk and Conan, but I love both).

Oh hell I just realized the first one being a preference is how Ars Magica happened! So I guess other people are into it.

But my players mostly want "A ragtag crew of reprobates takes a dodgy job but ends up having to save the day!". Which is fine, I like that too, even if it's not my #1 preference.

I ain't never going to run no intrigue-ass Game of Thrones-type nonsense though. Nope. Some other DM can do that. I have my limits.
 




Micah Sweet

Level Up & OSR Enthusiast
I think as DM you derive your enjoyment from the players, so you have to go with what they like, not what you like. I don't much care for anime, but I know several of my players do, so I make a point of researching and referencing it. Tolkien's chum Lewis had owlfolk in his books anyway.
I think the player's enjoyment should not come at the expense of the DMs, so agree to disagree there.

Also, Tolkien and Lewis, while great friends, did not see eye to eye on a number of issues related to their writing, so that doesn't really do anything for me either.
 


I think the player's enjoyment should not come at the expense of the DMs, so agree to disagree there.
It wasn't that painful watching a few minutes of anime and reading the plot on Wikipedia. I mean, it's always good to be exposed to new stuff, even if it's only to make sure you don't like it, rather than just think you won't like it. I listened to a Taylor Swift song the other day, and it actually wasn't that bad!
Also, Tolkien and Lewis, while great friends, did not see eye to eye on a number of issues related to their writing, so that doesn't really do anything for me either.
It shows you can like different things and still be friends and spend lots of time discussing said things down the pub.
 

The more I think about it, the more I realize my issue is mostly the character art.

I'm on board with monsters like this:
View attachment 156250

Neat environments like this:
View attachment 156251

But then the adventure party looks like:
View attachment 156253

And I'm immediately turned off. There is just nothing in there that screams deadly dungeon delver. They look like they'd last about a minute in the Tomb of Horrors...
This is a great example, IMO, because the question then becomes 'why?' I do not dispute that this art (particularly the bottom one) looks different than most of 1E, 2E, or much of basic-classic's art*, but it's unclear how these characters are coded as less-prepared for the harshness of dungeon-crawling than the TSR-era adventurers (who were consistently drawn screwing up, about to die, etc.).
*mostly in that it is clearly originally meant as full-color painted or digitally-painted art, rather than line art or paintings mad by people who spent much of their time doing monotone line art. That, I think is the major difference from old and new -- bitd most of the game artists were predominantly aspiring illustrators, while modern ones are aspiring painters.

Looking at this bottom picture, I see:
A castor - likely a wizard or sorcerer, with symbols of being a knowledge-worker. Okay, glasses are anachronistic to the faux-medieval milieu D&D vaguely approaches, but it's effectively just doing the same 'communicates smart guy in party' schtick that robes with moons and stars and a pointy hat did bitd.
A lightly-to-moderately armored character -- possibly rogue, ranger, or dex-based fighter. Okay, the armor isn't historically accurate (but then again, AD&D had ring mail and studded leather and not-obviously-cuir-boilli-leather armor and such...), but assuming the things with metal edges are metal all the way through just with leather or cloth covering, it isn't worse than many IRL partial armors*
*assuming that there is an unseen helmet that is simply doffed for the portrait. That's a an obvious issue that exists with fantasy depictions from every era and every medium (so much so that even pointing it out is hackneyed at this point, but I'm doing so to acknowledge I am aware of it).
Third character is a moderate-to-heavily armored character -- fighter, paladin, cleric, who knows? Other than the helmet issue again, there's nothing specifically weak or powerful being communicated. They are a race one wouldn't have played in AD&D (although I played a Hsiao in BECMI that would be kinda along the same vein), but again not specifically better off or worse than PC races of the era (with a nifty answer to pit traps).

So what is it that makes this art speak to you differently?
 

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