Pathfinder 2E How is Pathfinder doing?

[Mercurius]

While I'm more focused on D&D, I do buy the occasional PF book, at least during the 1E run, and I'm curious how Pathfinder is doing in the two years since 2E came out. I think I asked this a year or two ago, but thought I'd dip in again.

How is Pathfinder doing? And Paizo in general? From what I gather, Starfinder has slowed down?

Are fans generally happy with 2E? And are sales/subscriptions still strong? I was looking at the publication schedule, and it seems like it is holding up - with three rule books, three setting books, and a bunch of adventures every year - still about double WotC's D&D output, even with the increased schedule of 2022.

From scanning reviews on Amazon, it seems people are generally quite happy, although I noticed a bit of grumbling about the Lost Omens books - that they aren't offering much by way of new material, and it is just the old setting books re-packaged. Is that true? (I'm actually interested in both the Mwangi and Absalom books, so would love feedback on those two, in particular).

Thanks!

 

[Davies]

From scanning reviews on Amazon, it seems people are generally quite happy, although I noticed a bit of grumbling about the Lost Omens books - that they aren't offering much by way of new material, and it is just the old setting books re-packaged. Is that true? (I'm actually interested in both the Mwangi and Absalom books, so would love feedback on those two, in particular).

Here are some good, quick reviews of The Mwangi Expanse, one of which I wrote. As for Absalom, it is a lot to take in, but it is probably the best ever look at the city and the people who live there, filled to the brim with plot hooks.

There's also the forthcoming Knights of Lastwall book that I'm really looking forward to, and later in the year we'll be getting an in-depth look at The Impossible Lands. You might also want to take a look at Guns & Gears, from the rulebook line, which offers a look at parts of the world that have never before been revealed.

It is not true that they are the old setting books re-packaged. Time has moved on, and much has changed. I imagine that annoys some people even more.

 

[Mercurius]

Here are some good, quick reviews of The Mwangi Expanse, one of which I wrote. As for Absalom, it is a lot to take in, but it is probably the best ever look at the city and the people who live there, filled to the brim with plot hooks.

There's also the forthcoming Knights of Lastwall book that I'm really looking forward to, and later in the year we'll be getting an in-depth look at The Impossible Lands. You might also want to take a look at Guns & Gears, from the rulebook line, which offers a look at parts of the world that have never before been revealed.

It is not true that they are the old setting books re-packaged. Time has moved on, and much has changed. I imagine that annoys some people even more.

Thanks. I'll check out the Mwangi reviews, and the Impossible Lands sounds interesting.

 

[Jahydin]

It's what my friends and I have moved on to and have been really enjoying it for its focus on team work, tactical decisions, and overall crunch. The Adventure Paths (APs) Paizo puts out are still the most stress free way for me to run games, so happy with those as well.

As for content, I do feel like I'm being buried in product. I still buy everything (not all APs) that comes out because I like the art so much, but I'm not even close to reading it all completely yet.

My only complaint is much like D&D, Paizo has leaned into a "softer" tone than their previous addition, but unlike 5E, where the rules kind of support that tone, PF2E is as brutal as ever mechanically, so I think there is kind of a mismatch that confuses new players.

 

[Retreater]

I don't think anyone on these boards has actual sales figures, so it's all conjecture, hearsay, and anecdotal.
I don't follow Starfinder at all, so all of my comments are regarding PF2.
Their PF2 APs are getting pretty good word of mouth these days. (Strength of Thousands and Abomination Vaults being two recent hits.)
They recently signed on to officially support Foundry VTT. And compared to two years ago, their Roll20 offerings are more complete as well. So they seem to be doing well on VTT.
Just in my opinion, it seems to be getting more discussion with YouTube commentators. The quality of their products seem better to me than they did when they first came out.
They recently announced a conversion of their AP Abomination Vaults to 5e to try to tap into the D&D market.

It doesn't have the range of 5e's market penetration, but nothing does honestly. I imagine that Paizo is pleased enough with the products, and they should be. It's a solid system and well worth giving a play if more player options, tactical crunch, and the published adventures appeal to you.

 

[GreyLord]

I follow Starfinder more than PF2e these days. I am not much into the online groups though, so I don't know how it is doing via the rest of the world overall. They have had some decent material come out over the past year. I picked up two new modules/adventures as well as a low level 3 volume AP (They also had a high level one I picked up, didn't plan on that and got it by mistake thinking it was the other lower level one instead). I mainly play SF lower levels rather than anything past level 10.

 

[TheSword]

I think they are doing good stuff on the AP side. Back to their old form I think.

The 3 part demi-campaigns are a particularly good idea, and I’m glad to see they’re continuing that with this years two. Six parts could drag a bit and they had increasingly pulled away from the higher levels.

I bought Fists of the Ruby Phoenix to convert to 5e and was impressed with it.

 

[JThursby]

Pathfinder 2e has become my comfort game. It's comfy for me to read lore about, theorycraft about, and easy for me to run. The prepared adventures are extensively detailed and the published content on Foundry makes setup very fast. I went through the Beginner Box on Foundry with some of my college friends to introduce them to the system, we got through it's 10+ combats in merely 2 sessions. The speed of play is incredibly brisk, the three-action system has done wonders for making things feel more fluid and natural. It's a truly fantastic system with an incredible amount of support.

Starfinder has sat on my shelf since I bought it. I can neither generate interest for it with my friends or even really myself. It's a bit of an awkward product that certain has some audience but it's a fraction of Pathfinder's.

I don't think anyone on these boards has actual sales figures, so it's all conjecture, hearsay, and anecdotal.

@Retreater is 100% right. People get weird about what games they think sell more, it's just another facet of the Edition Wars that should be ignored.

My only complaint is much like D&D, Paizo has leaned into a "softer" tone than their previous addition, but unlike 5E, where the rules kind of support that tone, PF2E is as brutal as ever mechanically, so I think there is kind of a mismatch that confuses new players.

IMO, this is partially true. The art has definitely gotten softer/brighter, and hardcore evil factions and jerkass villains get proportionally less attention than they used to. This is due in part to all the APs having ended with canonical good endings, and new threats haven't risen at the same rate old ones have been squished. It's still a comsic horror world masquerading as high fantasy though.

I think they are doing good stuff on the AP side. Back to their old form I think.

Abomination Vaults and Strength of Thousands are really freaking good. AV is a classic dungeon written by some of the best working adventure writers, and Strength of Thousands is the first AP to utilize the Mwangi lore content to it's fullest. The first few adventures were just...ok, which I think slowed down enthusiasm for the system for a while. But right now there's a great megadungeon and an excellent Magical School campaign that makes Strixhaven look like a sad joke. AV is getting a full Foundry release in a few weeks, I'm looking forward to running it for a few groups.

 

[TheSword]

Abomination Vaults and Strength of Thousands are really freaking good. AV is a classic dungeon written by some of the best working adventure writers, and Strength of Thousands is the first AP to utilize the Mwangi lore content to it's fullest. The first few adventures were just...ok, which I think slowed down enthusiasm for the system for a while. But right now there's a great megadungeon and an excellent Magical School campaign that makes Strixhaven look like a sad joke. AV is getting a full Foundry release in a few weeks, I'm looking forward to running it for a few groups.

Yes. Paizo have always been masters at not only coming up with a good idea… but also teaching it ABC, sending it to prep school, getting it a top degree at a great college and then a job in a respectable profession.

They go the extra mile and pour on the detail, which makes their worlds come alive. Let’s be honest they are why 5e launched the campaign book format.

My only criticism would be that they have a few too many combat encounters which then cheapens combat, but then again so does 5e and it’s totally within the DMs reach to adjust that.

 

[Jahydin]

IMO, this is partially true. The art has definitely gotten softer/brighter, and hardcore evil factions and jerkass villains get proportionally less attention than they used to. This is due in part to all the APs having ended with canonical good endings, and new threats haven't risen at the same rate old ones have been squished. It's still a comsic horror world masquerading as high fantasy though.

Oh, I didn't realize that. Art like the cover of Grand Bazzar has me a bit worried they're swinging in the wrong direction. We already have this "warm fuzzy" business in 5E, I don't want it in PF too. I'm hoping they pivot away and go with their original tone that more closely matches the deadly mechanics.