D&D 5E Epic Level 1?!

[ElPsyCongroo]

So essentially the idea is you take the idea of Epic Level 6 but you stay a similar level of power to a level 1 PC. However you still level up, instead of the power creep race you just get more options and variety as you attain more class levels and access to additional features. It would require scaling down the magnitude of various aspects of the game. Rather than just upgrades, its a game of sidegrades and utility. Its about the right tool for the right job.
The world/multiverse at large is scaled to a Level 1 aspect too. The real difficulty stemming from the nature of the beasts/ people you are fighting rather than DBZ power-level-esque "you are too low level for this encounter".

To me it sounds utterly ruthless but at the same time has an appeal...

 

[d24454_modern]

Wouldn't that just highlight how useless level is in the game?

 

[ElPsyCongroo]

Wouldn't that just highlight how useless level is in the game?

Level is just a neat way of tracking player progression in the end

 

[GMforPowergamers]

Back in 3.0 we played a highpower game where 5 out of 6 PCs had divine rank 0. The final PC was a kobold who had a feat that increased his draconic heritage (I think it's dragonwrote might be missremebering) and becuse he was old counted as epic for feat prerqs... the game started at 2nd level and was bonkers.

PCs getting divine powers, the kobold psiwarrior/fighter/psion litterally starting level 2 (fighter 1 psi warrior 1) with3 feats 2 being epic was crazy enough... when he went up to psiwarrior 2 fighter 2 psion 1 and had 6 feats he got crazy... and he had a feat that added 4 or upto his HD to manifester level so even being a 1st level psion could spend power points as 5th level psion... and did I mention 4 of those 6 feats (dragon wroght and manifester not withstanding) where epic... it was nuts,

had fun would recomend... until the end when I called shenanigans

the plot was the mind flayer god had gotten the evil gods togather they all pooled there divine rank and gave it to him so he could eat pelors brain (casting the sun out of the world) then split pelor's divine rank up among them and started taking out other gods with there armies...

the PCs found where elven god and dwarven god had hidden away (and killed 1 or 2 other gods taking there divine rank so everyone was at 1 or 2... including the psion/epic kobold who got himself to 1)... then one of the PCs said "Wait... we can just end this." and I was like "no you can;t you can't go fight a Div rank 27 mind flayer god even with these few divine rank 17 gods...
"no, not with them, they stay here, just (kobold name) goes"
"what, he is awesome but he can't solo a Divine Rank 27 god, you can't even..." I stopped in my tracks, I knew what was coming.
so everyone gave the kobold all but 1 of there divine rank...bringing him to 40, he teleported in, acted first and disintagrated the flayer, gaining +26 divne ranks... my flayers last words "I call shenanigans, this was my plan" then he teleported to 3 other evil gods did teh same getting +18ish per evil god to his divin rank then went back raised the elven god to 21 (over god) and gave the dwarf good his 17 back and 3 more to get to 20, then raised everyone else up into the teens... becomeing the new gods including himself being the god of dragons

 

[payn]

Thats how my Traveller game feels. You might think it gets boring not getting more powerful and facing stronger foes, but instead you focus more on the adventure itself. YMMV

 

[GMforPowergamers]

Wouldn't that just highlight how useless level is in the game?

level is already weird...

my rogue takes history prof and expertise at level 1 on a whim...he doesn't use it for 4 years in game time (7-10 months out of game) and he goes from a +6 to a +12 in it... how did he double his skill in knowing history, by killing goblins then ghouls then whites then orcs then that town guard incident, then the mages, then the other town guard incident, then that kings guard (he had it coming) then finally facing off against the legion of hobgoblins hopped up on magic PCP...

someone had a funny comci strip about wizard schools not needing books when you learn more and more powerful spells by hunting goblins in the woods.

 

[overgeeked]

Shh. Don’t tell anyone. But level is useless already. As you “gain” hp and spells and magic items and damage and numbers…all the monsters “gain” hp and spells and magic items and damage and numbers. Level is a treadmill to give players the illusion of progress.

 

[d24454_modern]

level is already weird...

my rogue takes history prof and expertise at level 1 on a whim...he doesn't use it for 4 years in game time (7-10 months out of game) and he goes from a +6 to a +12 in it... how did he double his skill in knowing history, by killing goblins then ghouls then whites then orcs then that town guard incident, then the mages, then the other town guard incident, then that kings guard (he had it coming) then finally facing off against the legion of hobgoblins hopped up on magic PCP...

someone had a funny comci strip about wizard schools not needing books when you learn more and more powerful spells by hunting goblins in the woods.

Shh. Don’t tell anyone. But level is useless already. As you “gain” hp and spells and magic items and damage and numbers…all the monsters “gain” hp and spells and magic items and damage and numbers. Level is a treadmill to give players the illusion of progress.

Personally, I feel like the weirdness comes from the fact that there are so many forms of progression that don’t really require levels.

Equipment, traits, the fact that DMs can just adjust encounters to make them easier or harder,…

It definitely lessens the “impact” of levels.

It doesn’t help that your party members will typically all be at the same level all the time.

 

[Fanaelialae]

Shh. Don’t tell anyone. But level is useless already. As you “gain” hp and spells and magic items and damage and numbers…all the monsters “gain” hp and spells and magic items and damage and numbers. Level is a treadmill to give players the illusion of progress.

That really depends on play style.

Imagine a goblin warren filled with CR 1 goblins that the PCs can go to at level 1.

If the PCs go there at level 3, but the goblins are still CR 1, there's not really a treadmill. The PCs might be more inclined to seek out CR 3 monsters, because those offer better treasure and XP, but that's their choice, not a treadmill.

It's like claiming that Dr House and Dr Steven Strange are no different from Dr Interns J.D. and Turk (Scrubs, S1E1). I mean, sure, they're all doctors whose job it is to treat patients, but that's a very reductionist argument. Clearly, when you look more closely, the former are two of the best doctors in the world, while the latter two are completely inexperienced. The Interns taking on a House or Strange case would almost certainly end in disaster.

One the other hand, if they go to the warrens at level 3 and the goblins are CR 3, there's some argument to be made for a treadmill.

But even that fundamentally ignores higher level abilities that can and do significantly alter gameplay. For example, the level 3 Wizard might cast Invisibility on the Rogue, making it easy for the Rogue to scout the warrens. The level 1 party simply doesn't have that option.

Regarding the OP, it's your choice, but E1 would ignore a huge percentage of the game. I suspect that there are (non-level-based) games out there that specifically cater to such a style, which might make for a more enjoyable experience. Personally, I play D&D in part because I like the advancement, so the idea doesn't appeal to me.

 

[DND_Reborn]

Shh. Don’t tell anyone. But level is useless already. As you “gain” hp and spells and magic items and damage and numbers…all the monsters “gain” hp and spells and magic items and damage and numbers. Level is a treadmill to give players the illusion of progress.

LOL mostly I agree, but there is a bit more to it than that.

At high levels, weaker monsters can still pose a threat in sufficient numbers, but at lower levels those more powerful monsters will just kill you more quickly...