D&D 5E First World: Possibly One of the New D&D setting?

[Micah Sweet]

No it isn't. It's a fact that if nothing ever changes about the game, the game will die. Change is required for progress and inventiveness. That's fact. Opinion is whether or not you prefer the new stuff to the old stuff. If D&D stopped making new things or updating old things towards modern tastes right now the game would eventually die.

Understood. However, to be frank I don't see much benefit from what WotC has been doing lately, so them being successful doesn't really matter much to me at this point.

 

[Micah Sweet]

No it wouldn't. In Fizban's they leave it purposefully vague so people that like the story can use it and people that don't can ignore it. Do you really think that the only way a creation myth can be good is if it says "this is not true, and if you like it and use it as written, you're doing something wrong"?

Not official.

It is literally a myth. It doesn't have to make sense. Read real-world mythology. None of it makes sense.

Many 3PP products are as good or better than WotC. Something being official is way overblown in importance.

 

[Levistus's_Leviathan]

Many 3PP products are as good or better than WotC. Something being official is way overblown in importance.

Did you read through the entirety of that line of discussion? @Rogerd1 said that 30th-level characters in D&D 5e can kill gods. I pointed out that there's no 30th level in D&D 5e. They then said "but 3rd Party exists", which I dismissed because it's not official. Their base premise was inaccurate because there are no official rules for levels 21-30 in D&D 5e. I don't care if 3rd parties make them (I have made it too) because they were speaking as if it were assumed at the base of the game.

 

[Levistus's_Leviathan]

Understood. However, to be frank I don't see much benefit from what WotC has been doing lately, so them being successful doesn't really matter much to me at this point.

So, you would rather WotC and D&D die than new stuff get made? Or than having minor aspects of older settings be updated to better fit a modern audience?

That's certainly a choice. "I don't care if D&D dies because I have a personal vendetta against WotC" is a laughable and incredibly selfish position. "If D&D doesn't do exactly what I want it to, I would rather take away the fun of literal millions of people than let it continue on without me."

 

[Rogerd1]

No it wouldn't. In Fizban's they leave it purposefully vague so people that like the story can use it and people that don't can ignore it. Do you really think that the only way a creation myth can be good is if it says "this is not true, and if you like it and use it as written, you're doing something wrong"?

It may be3 vague now.
I said it would be a problem if it was true, and ended up back by more lore.

Not official.

Produced under license, so yeah it is.

It is literally a myth. It doesn't have to make sense. Read real-world mythology. None of it makes sense.

It might be a myth, so what?
Nothing wrong with some parts of DnD myth being true....just not the dragons bits.

 

[Micah Sweet]

So, you would rather WotC and D&D die than new stuff get made? Or than having minor aspects of older settings be updated to better fit a modern audience?

That's certainly a choice. "I don't care if D&D dies because I have a personal vendetta against WotC" is a laughable and incredibly selfish position. "If D&D doesn't do exactly what I want it to, I would rather take away the fun of literal millions of people than let it continue on without me."

Again, make new stuff. Stop rewriting the past. Whatever happened, happened.

 

[Levistus's_Leviathan]

Again, make new stuff. Stop rewriting the past. Whatever happened, happened.

Except when they do (like with the First World, Draconic Echoes, and Strixhaven), you still complain about it. And there are plenty of fans of previous editions' settings that dislike the problematic parts of them, too (like the Vistani and Caliban from Ravenloft, or Gully Dwarves from Dragonlance, or Aperusa from Spelljammer).

 

[Micah Sweet]

Except when they do (like with the First World and Draconic Echoes), you hate it too. And there are plenty of fans of previous editions' settings that dislike the problematic parts of them, too (like the Vistani and Caliban from Ravenloft, or Gully Dwarves from Dragonlance, or Aperusa from Spelljammer).

I have no problem with the First World existing, even if I don't like it. I've said that before. Just leave the past in the past if you can't think of a way to add to it that doesn't invalidate the original story.

 

[Faolyn]

You just said you liked Calibans (a specific) but thought the concept was awful. How do you reconcile that cognitive dissonance?

I recognize that the concept is bad, because it says that physical deformities are a curse--the original caliban were mostly of the hunchback/clubfoot Igor type. It's a good thing that they're not in the book, because of this. I have zero problem with them being removed.

Nevertheless, I like the basic concept. The idea of being marked at birth with a curse is a good one for a gothic horror setting. It's just that specifying that certain actual, already marginalized people are actually magically cursed isn't cool. So I made a homebrew version, which I'm actually in the process of revamping, that removes that. For this, I combined many different things: other ideas that were in the books (such as the wailing ones from Mordent, or Shih Suren, a caliban that looks like an anthro-tiger, from Heroes of Light), and some stuff that was in an issue of the Quote the Raven RL fanzine. To that, I mixed in "real life paranormal" stories about things like black-eyed children or some of the weirder men in black sightings and the idea of people who look full uncanny valley (both a few real people who've used a lot of plastic surgery to look like dolls, and anime characters). While you can still play a caliban with physical deformities, that's 100% up to the player. It's not a requirement, like it was in the book.

So there's no cognitive dissonance here. I took an idea I liked, removed the stuff I thought was bad, and added stuff I liked, and above all, I know what my players are like and what is or isn't acceptable with them. And I'm still glad that WotC removed the caliban, because I feel that they had too much baggage to be brought over officially for the masses and aren't actually necessary for the setting.

 

[Micah Sweet]

I recognize that the concept is bad, because it says that physical deformities are a curse--the original caliban were mostly of the hunchback/clubfoot Igor type. It's a good thing that they're not in the book, because of this. I have zero problem with them being removed.

Nevertheless, I like the basic concept. The idea of being marked at birth with a curse is a good one for a gothic horror setting. It's just that specifying that certain actual, already marginalized people are actually magically cursed isn't cool. So I made a homebrew version, which I'm actually in the process of revamping, that removes that. For this, I combined many different things: other ideas that were in the books (such as the wailing ones from Mordent, or Shih Suren, a caliban that looks like an anthro-tiger, from Heroes of Light), and some stuff that was in an issue of the Quote the Raven RL fanzine. To that, I mixed in "real life paranormal" stories about things like black-eyed children or some of the weirder men in black sightings and the idea of people who look full uncanny valley (both a few real people who've used a lot of plastic surgery to look like dolls, and anime characters). While you can still play a caliban with physical deformities, that's 100% up to the player. It's not a requirement, like it was in the book.

So there's no cognitive dissonance here. I took an idea I liked, removed the stuff I thought was bad, and added stuff I liked, and above all, I know what my players are like and what is or isn't acceptable with them. And I'm still glad that WotC removed the caliban, because I feel that they had too much baggage to be brought over officially for the masses and aren't actually necessary for the setting.

As long as the original story can be used in-universe, that all sounds fine.