Why Jargon is Bad, and Some Modern Resources for RPG Theory

[JiffyPopTart]

Nah, what you want to do is prepare the session with intuitive continuity then engage in illusionism by way of using GM-oomph to push the PCs into a blood opera. (Preferably this is done with trailblazing, really.) That way, even if it's short, it'll at least be interesting. You'll just have to be careful the illusionism doesn't break the social contract otherwise you're railroading, even pushing the players into mere participationism. This may conflict with your creative agenda. At the end of the day though, it's just another Impossible Thing Before Breakfast.

I like turtles.

 

[pemerton]

I don't have a problem with jargon per se. The difficulty I have with jargon is that framing a discussion or argument in particular terms assents to the validity of those terms.

That's what frustrates me every time I see references to a "spectrum" of RPGing from "railroads" through "linear adventures" to "sandboxes".

It's important (for me) to keep in mind that it's a mean to an end, which is better communication.

Jargon also supports analysis. You can't do serious analysis without using technical terms that encode already-established premises, frameworks, results, etc.

And if I was going to introduce forge theory to someone in, say, my Call of Cthulhu group, I would frame it that way. I would say, "here are some people who looked at Vampire, CoC, Dnd, and said definitely not that." It's a relevant framework for people playing "storygames," especially those games that grew out of that scene, even from those designers that have continued to evolve in their thinking past the forge model.*

But the forge doesn't do that, because as Snarf says, it presents itself as a neutral, unbiased theory of all rpgs. So it looks the Call of Cthulhu player, and says, you play those games because you like participationism, you liked to be railroaded through gm storytime, you like games with GM fiat and low player agency. Aside from being a condescending approach, it also shuts off the theory to experiences that can't already be fit within its schema.

Edwards' framework is in my view very powerful for understanding purist-for-system, or process, simulationist play. It is also, in my view, very helpful for understanding classic D&D play. Only after reading Edwards was I able to go back to writing by Lewis Pulsipher and Roger Musson and really understand what was going on in their late-70s/early-80s D&D advice.

Frankly it also explains what I enjoy about CoC play, and what makes for good CoC GMing, but that's not a very big part of my RPGing.

 

[Maxperson]

Because you complained that terms you didn’t know were jargon that constituted gatekeeping. And now you’re literally saying that one form of jargon is acceptable and one is not. Which is gatekeeping.

It’s hypocritical.

As for the forum, the thread is about RPG theory and jargon, so I don’t think there’s any reason to privilege D&D jargon.

I think there's a difference between jargon that is built into the game rules and clearly explained and defined(armor class, hit points, hit dice, saving throw, etc.), and jargon brought from outside sources and used to discuss the game(The Forge, etc.).

 

[pemerton]

So is kicker just shorthand for "The GM is obliged to honour, build on, place pressure on and riff off a player authored inciting incidents"?

Kicker is a noun. It refers to an event that occurs in the imagined world. The event is authored by the player, and it must present some dramatic change in that player's character's circumstances - the inciting incident - that propels them into play. The propulsion will normally both be literal (the PC is kicked out of their normal comfortable circumstances) and metaphorical (the PC's orientation or motivation changes, or is challenged, so that they can't just stay the same person they once were). Because we're talking about play of an RPG, for all this to happen and to actually unfold in some fashion, the GM has to be constrained in their authorship: they have to honour, build on, place pressure on and riff off the kicker that the player has authored for their PC.

When someone tells me that they started the game with the players writing kickers for their PCs, the preceding paragraph is what I take away from what they said.

If someone described starting a game along the lines I've set out, but didn't use any particular label for it, I might say "Cool, you used kickers!" And if they said "What're kickers?" I'd tell them that they worked out the same technique that Ron Edwards did, and that he came up with a name for it. In my experience most people are interested to learn how things they've worked out for themselves fit into the bigger picture of the hobby.

 

[pemerton]

I think there's a difference between jargon that is built into the game rules and clearly explained and defines(armor class, hit points, hit dice, saving throw, etc.) and jargon brought from outside sources and used to discuss the game(The Forge, etc.).

This would implicate jargon like "linear", "sandbox", "railroad", "murder-hoboism", "munchkin", etc, wouldn't it?

 

[JiffyPopTart]

Kicker is a noun. It refers to an event that occurs in the imagined world. The event is authored by the player, and it must present some dramatic change in that player's character's circumstances - the inciting incident - that propels them into play. The propulsion will normally both be literal (the PC is kicked out of their normal comfortable circumstances) and metaphorical (the PC's orientation or motivation changes, or is challenged, so that they can't just stay the same person they once were). Because we're talking about play of an RPG, for all this to happen and to actually unfold in some fashion, the GM has to be constrained in their authorship: they have to honour, build on, place pressure on and riff off the kicker that the player has authored for their PC.

When someone tells me that they started the game with the players writing kickers for their PCs, the preceding paragraph is what I take away from what they said.

If someone described starting a game along the lines I've set out, but didn't use any particular label for it, I might say "Cool, you used kickers!" And if they said "What're kickers?" I'd tell them that they worked out the same technique that Ron Edwards did, and that he came up with a name for it. In my experience most people are interested to learn how things they've worked out for themselves fit into the bigger picture of the hobby.

Without wider context I struggle to see any significance to someone inventing a term as shorthand for the concept of backstory the GM incorporates in the ongoing fiction.

 

[Maxperson]

This would implicate jargon like "linear", "sandbox", "railroad", "murder-hoboism", "munchkin", etc, wouldn't it?

Sure. There have been several times that I have talked to someone who played D&D and didn't know those terms.

 

[JiffyPopTart]

Edwards' framework is in my view very powerful for understanding purist-for-system, or process, simulationist play. It is also, in my view, very helpful for understanding classic D&D play.

Gonna quote this as an example of words that have no meaning to the layman. None of this means anything to me, your audience.

To do as I've been asked....can you please define for me

Purist-for-system
Process/Simulationist Play (Not even sure is this is one or two separate things)

 

[pemerton]

Without wider context I struggle to see any significance to someone inventing a term as shorthand for the concept of backstory the GM incorporates in the ongoing fiction.

A kicker is not merely backstory that the GM incorporates into the ongoing fiction.

Here's an example of backstory that the GM incorporates into the ongoing fiction:

Player: My PC was a soldier in the Old Guards regiment, before becoming an adventurer.

<Time passes>

GM: As you ride along the road, you see a group of soldiers marching towards you. From their insignia, it looks like they're the Old Guards.

Player: Cool! Do I see anyone I served with?​

But there's no kicker there.

Here's another example of backstory that the GM incorporates into the ongoing fiction:

Player: I wake up in bed. There's a body next to me, apparently dead! I can't remember what I did last night - but I can hear someone pounding at the door. I think it's the police!

GM: They call out "Open up! We've got a search warrant." What do you do?​

That looks more like a kicker. What would confirm that it was a kicker would be the ensuing play, in which the questions like Whose body? and Why my bed? and What happened to me last night? and How did the police know? are at the forefront of the action.

 

[JiffyPopTart]

A kicker is not merely backstory that the GM incorporates into the ongoing fiction.

Here's an example of backstory that the GM incorporates into the ongoing fiction:

Player: My PC was a soldier in the Old Guards regiment, before becoming an adventurer.​

​

<Time passes>​

​

GM: As you ride along the road, you see a group of soldiers marching towards you. From their insignia, it looks like they're the Old Guards.​

​

Player: Cool! Do I see anyone I served with?​

But there's no kicker there.

Here's another example of backstory that the GM incorporates into the ongoing fiction:

Player: I wake up in bed. There's a body next to me, apparently dead! I can't remember what I did last night - but I can hear someone pounding at the door. I think it's the police!​

​

GM: They call out "Open up! We've got a search warrant." What do you do?​

That looks more like a kicker. What would confirm that it was a kicker would be the ensuing play, in which the questions like Whose body? and Why my bed? and What happened to me last night? and How did the police know? are at the forefront of the action.

Is it only a kicker if it's resolved as soon as its laid down?

Game session 3
GM: As you round the bend you are startled by several ravens cawing loudly in the mide of the road.
Player: (inspiration to add to backstory) Barnabus backs up terrified. He is irrationally afraid of loud ravens. The night he discovered his sister rmissing he had been startled awake by two loud ravens outside this window.

Game Session 5
GM: (introducing sideplot involving ravens and missing sisters) When the hermits hut opens you flinch as two ravens perched on his shoulder begin seemingly laughing at you.