D&D 5E First World: Possibly One of the New D&D setting?

[Faolyn]

There isn't a human statblock. There are tons of them. I don't know what you're saying.

Human template. Human racial statistics. Whatever you want to call it.

If caliban are humans and not cursed but people think they are like you want to claim, then they use the human racial information. Free feat, 4 extra skill points, etc. And no Outcast Rating.

If they are actually cursed in the womb, like the 3x books said, then they don't get to use the human racial information. They're supposed to use the half-orc racial info, which means +2 Strength, -2 Int, -2 Cha, darkvision, etc., and a base OR of 5.

 

[dave2008]

I'm not sure if that's a big deal. Plenty of D&D settings have a dragon-focus. Eberron, Iomandra, and Krynn all can all coexist. And there's no reason why a "First World" setting book would have to actually portray the First World like Fizban's does (because it's a mythical poem from the viewpoint of the Dragons).

All true. I personal would like a truly Dragon focused setting as I don't really believe Eberron or Dragonlance are. Something like Iomandra on steroids would be awesome IMO. I think there is space for it, but I have seen claims that DL and Eberron already fill that design space. I don't think they do at all really.

 

[Micah Sweet]

No. That is literally not what anyone has been saying. I'm fine with slavery, bigotry, and stuff like that existing in worlds where it's clear that it's evil.

I'm not fine with the depiction of certain people in the setting being real world bigoted. Vistani and the Aperusa are real-world bigoted against the Romani people, and their depiction in Curse of Strahd still has them with all of the racist Romani stereotypes (drunkards, thieves, scum, etc).

I love Eberron and how Warforged are victims of racism in the setting. That's part of the draw to play a Warforged other than "magical robot man", to have to deal with the trope What Measure is a Non-Human. Dark Sun is fine because slavery is shown to be a bad thing perpetrated by an awful system and tyrannical rulers. I like how Exandria depicts the Kryn Dynasty as being discriminated against/distrusted because they're "monstrous" races. That is all fine. That stuff can (and should) stay in the respective settings being translated to official D&D 5e products.

Having a race/culture that's whole purpose in the setting is to be laughed at by the players/readers (Gully Dwarves, Tinker Gnomes) or that reinforce real-world negative stereotypes (Romani, Aperusa, Caliban, the Red and Yellow Orcs from Orcs of Thar, etc)? No. That's not fine. That is where I draw the line.

I agree. That is too far, and should be left out of gaming.

I've come around on some of this. Things that actually hurt real people shouldn't be there. The actual history of the old settings is preserved anyway in the original documents.

 

[dave2008]

Human template. Human racial statistics. Whatever you want to call it.

If caliban are humans and not cursed but people think they are like you want to claim, then they use the human racial information. Free feat, 4 extra skill points, etc. And no Outcast Rating.

If they are actually cursed in the womb, like the 3x books said, then they don't get to use the human racial information. They're supposed to use the half-orc racial info, which means +2 Strength, -2 Int, -2 Cha, darkvision, etc., and a base OR of 5.

I feel like the two of you are talking past each other on this one.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Human template. Human racial statistics. Whatever you want to call it.

If caliban are humans and not cursed but people think they are like you want to claim, then they use the human racial information. Free feat, 4 extra skill points, etc. And no Outcast Rating.

If they are actually cursed in the womb, like the 3x books said, then they don't get to use the human racial information. They're supposed to use the half-orc racial info, which means +2 Strength, -2 Int, -2 Cha, darkvision, etc., and a base OR of 5.

True. Let them be human then.

 

[Levistus's_Leviathan]

I agree. That is too far, and should be left out of gaming.

I've come around on some of this. Things that actually hurt real people shouldn't be there. The actual history of the old settings is preserved anyway in the original documents.

So, you agree now? Because I completely agree with that last sentence. The old stuff with the real-world bigotry is still there, it just shouldn't be in modern conversions of the settings. Changing settings from older editions a bit is fine because the previous stuff still exists, publishing newer versions of the settings opens them up for the DMsGuild, and removing the real-world bigotry that is a part of quite a few settings is good if it lets new players experience the good parts of them without all of the bad stuff.

We good now?

 

[JEB]

I feel like the two of you are talking past each other on this one.

There's been an awful lot of that in this thread, methinks. And lots of bad-faith assumptions about the other side extrapolated from little information.

 

[JEB]

All true. I personal would like a truly Dragon focused setting as I don't really believe Eberron or Dragonlance are. Something like Iomandra on steroids would be awesome IMO. I think there is space for it, but I have seen claims that DL and Eberron already fill that design space. I don't think they do at all really.

Bring back Council of Wyrms! (And let us play dragon PCs thanks)

 

[Micah Sweet]

So, you agree now? Because I completely agree with that last sentence. The old stuff with the real-world bigotry is still there, it just shouldn't be in modern conversions of the settings. Changing settings from older editions a bit is fine because the previous stuff still exists, publishing newer versions of the settings opens them up for the DMsGuild, and removing the real-world bigotry that is a part of quite a few settings is good if it lets new players experience the good parts of them without all of the bad stuff.

We good now?

Yeah, we good. I really hate changing history, but some things absolutely have to be updated, and the original is still out there anyway.

This stuff really works me up, and I'm not having the best day anyway. I'm sorry.

 

[dave2008]

Bring back Council of Wyrms! (And let us play dragon PCs thanks)

I never played Council of Wyrms, but I could see a new fresh take on the concept working.