D&D 5E New Spellcasting Blocks for Monsters --- Why?!

[Minigiant]

See my post above. If monsters are not designed to flee, why does even the new Vecna have Dimension Door?

Monsters are designed to flee.

Monsters are not designed to flee and be pursued in the same game.

If the party pursues, it's the same encounter. .if the party heals up and pursues, guess who does also.

DMing 202.. that'll be 12 bucks.

 

[Helldritch]

Not true. Spell casting is the only thing they have in common sort of sometimes. Multiattck vs attack action, taunt vs cutting word, leadership vs battle master dice, grapple/restrained on hit vs grapple/shove/feat, twf vs just more attacks, and so on.

Come on, the problem is exactly the spell slots. Having a special abilities is not in question here. Spell slots are.

 

[Helldritch]

The Monsters are not designed to be fought multiple times.

Monsters can only be designed for ONE encounter paradigm. You fight and one side dies, flees, or surrenders.

You can't design a monster for one encounter, 2 encounters, and 5 encounters in a single state block.

But when I said 5e could and should have variant rules for different playstyles over and over and over and over, a bunch of folk say they told need it. They the complain here about something that gets fixed with a variant rules and chart.

The number of encounter a monster can be encountered is exactly equal to what the story will dictate. My players recently fought a shadow dragon twice. The exact same one. He fled twice and the last fight lasted, 24 rounds. Yep, 24 rounds in a 5ed game. And that dragon is still alive and so is the group. Three died but the other three survived and raised their fallen comrades.

So, a monster can only be encountered once? That dragon will make a come back with minions next time. So it will be a third time. This is the very definition of a recurring vilain. Can a caster do the same? Of course it can! That is why spell slots are important to these type of foes.

 

[Charlaquin]

I am not talking about Counerspell. I nerfed Counterspell (and Dispel Magic) with House Rules years ago. I am talking about players chars having innate features that are badly hit by the overall changes to spell casting stat blocks.

How would you like to be an Oath of the Ancients Paladin that just hit 7th level in your campaign? That is just one example.

So replace “counterspell” with “aura of warding.” My point is, anti-spell features aren’t being nerfed, the PvE metagame is changing in a way that is unfavorable to anti-spell features.

 

[Reynard]

I have no issue with Vecna having teleport. Of course he should. He has access to all spells, with a good DM.

As for why Dimension Door, here is the spell description: "You teleport yourself from your current location to any other spot within range. You arrive at exactly the spot desired. It can be a place you can see, one you can visualize, or one you can describe by stating distance and direction, such as "200 feet straight downward" or "upward to the northwest at a 45-degree angle, 300 feet.""

And why burn a 7th level slot when a 4th level slot gets you to some inner sanctum 500 feet away that the players don't know about/can't reach?

Now, now, we can't be going off reading the spell descriptions. That might lead to reasonable, non-hyperbolic discourse.

 

[Reynard]

DMing 202.. that'll be 12 bucks.

That is one of the rudest things I have ever read on this board. Congratulations?

 

[Helldritch]

Yup...The fact that

Vecna has Dimension Door is ample proof that Vecna can book it any time things get a little too hot.

A spell slot with teleport, or a good contingency can do the trick too.

 

[Minigiant]

The number of encounter a monster can be encountered is exactly equal to what the story will dictate. My players recently fought a shadow dragon twice. The exact same one. He fled twice and the last fight lasted, 24 rounds. Yep, 24 rounds in a 5ed game. And that dragon is still alive and so is the group. Three died but the other three survived and raised their fallen comrades.

So, a monster can only be encountered once? That dragon will make a come back with minions next time. So it will be a third time. This is the very definition of a recurring vilain. Can a caster do the same? Of course it can! That is why spell slots are important to these type of foes.

1st level spells are worse than cantrips at high levels.

The low level spells are obsolete.

5th edition is designed so that as you level up your lower level spell slots are eclipsed by cantrips in damage.

If your monster comes back, he still isn't going to cast magic missile with a first level spell slot.

 

[Helldritch]

Monsters are designed to flee.

Monsters are not designed to flee and be pursued in the same game.

If the party pursues, it's the same encounter. .if the party heals up and pursues, guess who does also.

DMing 202.. that'll be 12 bucks.

The warlock recharge on short rests and so are a few other character concept. Not so with monsters in the MM as most abilities are recharging on a daily basis. So yes, rest and pursue is a thing. That is DMing 303. It will be free of charge, this time....

 

[Minigiant]

That is one of the rudest things I have ever read on this board. Congratulations?

I wasn't trying to be rude. I was explaining that there are hidden aspects of 5th edition that WOTC never explains. So without a deep dive into the books or advice by a veteran DM, you'd never understand these hidden elements.