D&D 5E New Spellcasting Blocks for Monsters --- Why?!

[Voadam]

Is recharge a 5E mechanic or did it appear in 4E? I honestly don't recall.

It was ubiquitous in 4e with the recharge on x mechanic, but recharge monster powers appeared before 4e.

For example in the 3.5 Monster Manual "Once a dragon breathes, it can’t breathe again until 1d4 rounds later."

 

[dave2008]

I
I apply a strict rule of:" If it is not not written, it does not have it." Period. Acting any otherwise would simply be cheating in my POV.

That is just anti-D&D in my POV. I mean a monster can't pick up sword or learn different spells. What about things like how the MM says you can change the spells on a spellcasting monster, or variants like dragon spellcasting. The spells are not written, so does that mean you can't use those options?

Not to mention there are so many things a monster / NPC can do logically that are not written down I just don't know how you understand your fictional world if you limit it to what is just written in the statblock.

And cheating, really?

 

[SkidAce]

You can cast magic missile at higher level.

My question was


Even on Player Characters, much lower level spells are weaker than cantrips.

So why do I need to know what a 1st level slot will do on a one shot monster who will never ever use them outside of a TPK?

Just tell me the spells I would actually use. If I want to trade out CoC for a 5th level MM, then I am doing advanced DMing and could figure that out anyway.

I agree with you that they dont need to list every single spell and slot that a 12th level caster would have, just whats needed.

But I do want to know that the opponent is "X level spellcaster" equivalent.

It helps me gauge it capabilities when I'm modding it.

"Okay, 12 level, hmmm, no wish spell or power word kill, but I could swap out these fire spells at these levels for necromancy."

etc.

 

[dave2008]

It was ubiquitous in 4e with the recharge on x mechanic, but recharge monster powers appeared before 4e.

For example in the 3.5 Monster Manual "Once a dragon breathes, it can’t breathe again until 1d4 rounds later."

But I believe the terminology "recharge" and the mechanic of how the recharge is determined (not set or random # of rounds, but when a particular number is rolled) started with 4e. Also, it has been strictly an NPC/Monster ability so far (I think).

 

[Minigiant]

I agree with you that they dont need to list every single spell and slot that a 12th level caster would have, just whats needed.

But I do want to know that the opponent is "X level spellcaster" equivalent.

It helps me gauge it capabilities when I'm modding it.

"Okay, 12 level, hmmm, no wish spell or power word kill, but I could swap out these fire spells at these levels for necromancy."

etc.

Can't you figure that from the highest level spell listed?

 

[Levistus's_Leviathan]

I apply a strict rule of:" If it is not not written, it does not have it." Period.

D&D 5e's monsters are never listed with Tool Proficiencies. Do none of your NPCs have Tool Proficiencies, then? You know that the official Pirate Stat Blocks in D&D 5e (from Ghosts of Saltmarsh) aren't listed as having proficiency in Sea Vehicles, right? The NPC stat block for Bards isn't listed with instrument proficiencies, either. So, by this very rigid and close-minded code that you've for some reason adopted, in D&D 5e, Pirates literally cannot sail the ships that they use to do their pirating, and Bards can't play the instruments that they need to be, you know, Bards. Is this how you run your games?

None of the monster stat blocks for Wizards before has listed their spellbooks, either. Does that mean that Archmages don't have spellbooks in your games? Most monsters don't have sections describing their equipment besides those relevant in combat (magic items, armor, weapons). Are commoners in your games all completely naked all the time, because they're not listed as wearing clothing or armor?

Or do you have your own special, homebrew version of the 5e monster stats that includes an extra line for tool proficiencies and a huge section for every single piece of equipment that the NPC has on them?

If you answered no to any of these questions and your games aren't filled with cities filled with hundreds of thousands of completely naked commoners, wizards with no spellbooks, bards with no instruments, and pirates that can't sail . . . you don't actually follow that strict rule you say you follow.

Clearly, the base assumptions of 5e do not follow this logic you claim to follow. It would make the game worse if it did, in my opinion.

 

[dave2008]

(Emphasis added.) To follow-up in the same vein as my questions above, what are your expectations for how the players roleplay their PCs with this mechanical change? For example, let's say the PCs suspect (rightly or wrongly) that the BBEG might be a Rakshasha and the PCs know IC that Rakshashas are famously immune to most spells. One of your players approaches you out of game to ask whether it would be reasonable IC for them to start recruiting NPC spellcaster allies who know how to cast non-spell magical attacks that bypass the Rakshasha's defenses. Would you encourage them to pursue such an effective strategy? Tell them their PC is unaware of the spell/non-spell distinction IC? Ask them to refrain from recruiting allies for game balance purposes? Something else?

I'm not the person you quoted, but I would say the PC is aware of a distinction between spells and non-spell magic; however, they are likely unaware how that applies to a rakshasa.

Also, for these new spell-like abilites, I would allow them to be counterspelled or blocked by similar magic. or effects For example, the rakshasa's limited magic immunity reads like this:

Limited Magic Immunity. The rakshasa can't be affected or detected by spells of 6th level or lower unless it wishes to be. It has advantage on saving throws against all other spells and magical effects.

It works on magical effects so I take that to mean any magical effect that is of similar power to a 6th level spell. So that would be a magical effect by a 13th PC (when 7th lvl spells become available) or 13 HD monster. Ideally a magical effect that is similar to a 6th lvl spell or less (which I eyeball).

 

[SkidAce]

The simulationists really don't have any point and never have in 5e. That's the whole thing in a nutshell. 5e has never even pretended to serve as a physics engine style game. It's never come close to that. Ten years of supplements, not a single one even remotely hinting at being this kind of simulation game and we're just now hearing about how the game is changing? Sorry folks, you lost this argument at the tail end of 3e. 5e most definitely has never been the game for this despite pretenses to the contrary.

And another thing. Why is it always "a lot of people"? Why not just speak for yourself and your preferences? Why the appeal to popularity? How does that help your argument? You play D&D this way, and well, that's fine. You do you. But, pretending that somehow there is this nebulous "group" of like minded people doesn't actually mean anything. My imaginary group of people is just as big as your imaginary group of people. Guess we're at an impasse.

I play it the way @Ondath described it, and they described it perfectly.

I want to know the capabilities of that evoker, either before I mod them or after. If they get locked in the dudgeon and "then" I add Knock to their spell list....well....

 

[Reynard]

It appears @Helldritch was referring to changing stats once the fight starts, which I totally get and adhere to myself. They weren't saying they never changed the published stats.

 

[Helldritch]

That is just anti-D&D in my POV. I mean a monster can't pick up sword or learn different spells. What about things like how the MM says you can change the spells on a spellcasting monster, or variants like dragon spellcasting. The spells are not written, so does that mean you can't use those options?

Not to mention there are so many things a monster / NPC can do logically that are not written down I just don't know how you understand your fictional world if you limit it to what is just written in the statblock.

And cheating, really?

You get it wrong.
I will not change what I have written. But I will change a foe before even it becomes an encounter. I will change the spells, the armor, thw weapon or whatever. The foes will even use their magical items in their hoard if they can. But these changes will be written in advance and will not made on the spot just to make an encounter tougher or easier.

A veteran, for example, might start to use a shield with his long sword. Thus he now has an AC of 20 and still do his normal long sword damage.
The priest in the NPC appendice might get a plate and shield if he expects a fight. His spell allotment might now include spirit guardian. Try to hit an AC 20 while suffering damage from the spirit guardians.
But once the change is written, it will not be changed once the encounter start.