D&D 5E New Spellcasting Blocks for Monsters --- Why?!

[SkidAce]

Can't you figure that from the highest level spell listed?

Vecna can cast 1 8th level spell (and 1 7th, and 1 6th) in a day. Sadly he has no 9th level spells.

A 15th to 20th level wizard can cast one 8th. (17th + gets one 9th)

So I guess in a way that does answer the question.

Edited to correct mistake mentioned below,

 

[dave2008]

They're just removing the 2e cover over the 4e engine that 5e has been all along.

If you think 5e has a 4e engine then I am guessing you didn't really play much 4e

 

[DND_Reborn]

Vecna can cast 3 eight level spells (1/day each) in a day. Sadly he has no 9th level spells.

A 15th to 20th level wizard can at most cast one 8th. (17th + gets one 9th)

So I guess in a way that does answer the question.

He can cast one 6th (globe of invulnerability), one 7th (plane shift), and one 8th (dominate monster), so not three 8th level spells.

Making him 15th (same as 16th) level equivalent.

And yes, no 9th.

 

[SkidAce]

View attachment 250810

He can cast one 6th (globe of invulnerability), one 7th (plane shift), and one 8th (dominate monster), so not three 8th level spells.

Making him 15th (same as 16th) level equivalent.

And yes, no 9th.

My bad, I saw the 8th on the 1/day line and messed up. Will edit.

 

[DND_Reborn]

My bad, I saw the 8th on the 1/day line and messed up. Will edit.

No worries. It would be cooler if he had three 8th level spells.

 

[SkidAce]

View attachment 250810

He can cast one 6th (globe of invulnerability), one 7th (plane shift), and one 8th (dominate monster), so not three 8th level spells.

Making him 15th (same as 16th) level equivalent.

And yes, no 9th.

You know, thinking about it, 15th caster, plus the special abilities might not be too far off for pre-ascension Vecna.

/nods sagely

 

[DND_Reborn]

You know, thinking about it, 15th caster, plus the special abilities might not be too far off for pre-ascension Vecna.

/nods sagely

Actually, that is a good point.

The lich in the MM is an 18th-level spellcaster, which coincides with the AD&D 1E Lich, which was at least 18th level of wizard. But, nothing in 5E specifies that must continue to be the case.

So, it is certainly possible that Vecna was 15th or 16th level before becoming a lich instead of higher level, and those three spells might have been what he had prepared at the time. Now, as an undead, he cannot long rest and so cannot change those spells.

It goes with the idea of using fluff to justify the new stat block.

 

[Hussar]

Fair enough. I've never used the Tarrasque in 5E for various reasons, not least because it's kind of a dumb monster.

Funnily enough I just recently did. Fantastic little module called The Tarasque Task of Moreen Trask”. Cool free adventure. Total blast.

And at the end I added back in the wish requirement because I hadn’t actually realized it had been removed until my players pointed it out.

Guess I’m just a cheating DM. Ah well. I’d rather cheat than get too wound up over contadicting the Monster Manual or WotC.

WotC cannot protect DMs from themselves.

 

[Hussar]

If you think 5e has a 4e engine then I am guessing you didn't really play much 4e

I did play a lot of 4e and I do think that 5e has a 4e engine. So much of 5e is a direct development from 4e.

Frankly I’m baffled by arguments to the contrary. How can it not be mostly 4e under the hood?

 

[Helldritch]

No apologies needed. I was not clear enough.
Others read as you did.

But for the second part. Not even to help the PCs. If they succeed, it is on their own powers, skills and inventiveness. I will not modify the story to help them. When they succeed, they know I did nothing to help them.

Actually, that is a good point.

The lich in the MM is an 18th-level spellcaster, which coincides with the AD&D 1E Lich, which was at least 18th level of wizard. But, nothing in 5E specifies that must continue to be the case.

So, it is certainly possible that Vecna was 15th or 16th level before becoming a lich instead of higher level, and those three spells might have been what he had prepared at the time. Now, as an undead, he cannot long rest and so cannot change those spells.

It goes with the idea of using fluff to justify the new stat block.

LIches in 1ed were anywhere from 11th to 18th level wizards. Each time a lich had to go to its philactery, it would lose a level if its original body could not be found and eaten...