D&D 5E New Spellcasting Blocks for Monsters --- Why?!

[DND_Reborn]

You're a part of a niche audience who wants the game to be more difficult so that new players can't join.

Hardly. You don't know me at all, so please don't pretend to--it's insulting, frankly.

I am not asking for the game to be more difficult. Keeping spell slots (which were already there) isn't more difficult. It isn't a hard concept as new players have been learning to use them for decades. Are the a few who might struggle with the concept? Sure, but that is true of anything, regardless how simple you make it. IME I've yet to meet a new player who has issues with understanding the concept of spell slots or what is involved in tracking them. YMMV, of course.

I am meeting a group of new players tomorrow night (last Monday was my first session with them). Just last week the guy who is DM was explaining how the wizard's player couldn't cast another 1st level spell because we had not completed the long rest yet so he didn't get his spell slots back.

So, again, please don't claim to know who I am. And thank you!

 

[Shardstone]

Hardly. You don't know me at all, so please don't pretend to--it's insulting, frankly.

I am not asking for the game to be more difficult. Keeping spell slots (which were already there) isn't more difficult. It isn't a hard concept as new players have been learning to use them for decades. Are the a few who might struggle with the concept? Sure, but that is true of anything, regardless how simple you make it. IME I've yet to meet a new player who has issues with understanding the concept of spell slots or what is involved in tracking them. YMMV, of course.

I am meeting a group of new players tomorrow night (last Monday was my first session with them). Just last week the guy who is DM was explaining how the wizard's player couldn't cast another 1st level spell because we had not completed the long rest yet so he didn't get his spell slots back.

So, again, please don't claim to know who I am. And thank you!

You're comparing spell slots for players vs a DM having to keep track of 3-4 monsters with different abilities, some of which have spell slots as well. Novice DMs running a high-level one-shot like this Vecna one-shot are all but impossible in the old system. And many DMs on all social media have talked about how they feel they can finally comfortably use spellcasters as monsters now due to the new format.

Your small sample size is reflective of the bias you have for spell slots on monsters, which itself is based out of your long history with the game. You need to recognize that there is a huge audience outside of your sample size who were very much unwilling to engage with the challenges of spell slots. On top of that, you have to recognize the inherent irony in your words. You argue that you have the experience and skill to do this, but you don't have the experience and skill to add in a few more spells to your monsters? If you can master 25 spells on a lich's spell block and run it comfortably, you can easily add 5-10 more spells to the neo-lich spellblocks like Vecna.

 

[Helldritch]

You simplified all that into "you do not want to learn time management."

You paint this in such a pretentious and gross way. The issues I may or may not have with getting my games scheduled, and that many more people may or may not have, cannot be reduced to such an inhuman and uncaring idea. The one with the clouded judgement is you, not me.

WotC understands this. WotC understands that the people who play their game, and the people who want to play their game but don't, need more easy to understand tools. Otherwise, the game stagnates, and we go back to a new edition every 4-5 years, and D&D remains the crapshoot it was in the 4E era in terms of being a cultural phenomenon.

Sorry if this sounds rude, but you telling me that dealing with a terrible economy, a terrible job market, a terrible healthcare system, and any other personal issues I could potentially have, from mental illness to deaths in the family etc, are just me and others like me not wanting to learn time management is so flagrantly disrespectful to a massive audience that plays D&D.

No, you took it personnal. It is as simple as that.
Barring all the bad events in your life and for these I feel sorry for you, time management might help you or not. An advice is an advice. Nothing more, nothing less. It may have sounded haughty and uncaring because it struck something in you and I am truly sorry for that. It was not my intention at all.

Just so you know. My wife is afflicted with a genetic disease and can no longer walk without help from walking aid. Soon, a year, two? If the disease progresses at the same rate she will be in a wheel chair permanently. I do the house work and cooking and soon. And yet, I still have time to have two regular groups and one exhibit games every two weeks. I work an average of 42 hours per week/ 12h per working days not counting over time and still go help my dad and mother with their chores at their home and do charity work on occasion. All this because I have had that simple 40 hours course in time management. I am no superman. But that kind if course helps a lot. But again, an advice is simply that an advice. Take it or leave it. That is your choice, but blaming me for giving it is not a friendly gesture

 

[Shardstone]

No, you took it personnal. It is as simple as that.
Barring all the bad events in your life and for these I feel sorry for you, time management might help you or not. An advice is an advice. Nothing more, nothing less. It may have sounded haughty and uncaring because it struck something in you and I am truly sorry for that. It was not my intention at all.

Just so you know. My wife is afflicted with a genetic disease and can no longer walk without help from walking aid. Soon, a year, two? If the disease progresses at the se rate she will be in a wheel chair permanently. I do the house work and cooking and soon. And yet, I still have time to have two regular groups and one exhibit games every two weeks. I work an average of 42 hours per week/ 12h per working days not counting over time and still go help my dad and mother with their chores at their home and do charity work on occasion. All this because I have had that simple 40 hours course in time management. I am no superman. But that kind if course helps a lot. But again, an advice is simply that an advice. Take it or leave it. That is your choice, but blaming me for giving it is not a friendly gesture

No one is taking it personal. I'm just trying to point out how insane it is that you still think that everyone ought to be able to do the things you do despite the specifics of their situation. Its clear that you are so entrenched in this ablest mindset that you literally cannot perceive of anyone else's perspective in terms of having difficulty with running the game.

So why do you think people are complaining? You think everyone is just too lazy and that the game is being dumbed down for lazy people or something?

 

[Helldritch]

No one is taking it personal. I'm just trying to point out how insane it is that you still think that everyone ought to be able to do the things you do despite the specifics of their situation. Its clear that you are so entrenched in this ablest mindset that you literally cannot perceive of anyone else's perspective in terms of having difficulty with running the game.

So why do you think people are complaining? You think everyone is just too lazy and that the game is being dumbed down for lazy people or something?

The truth? The game lacks one big thing. How to DM effectively. The DMG have extensive display on world building, optional rules and treasure. But adventure building? Just the fact that soon many people ignore that the game is built around the 6-8 encounters per day just show how bad it becomes at DMing during fights.

Adding pages for how to effectively track monsters' powers and HP would add a lot and remove a lot of problems young DMs have at managing fights.

Heck tracking initiative can be so easy and hard at the same time. How many use cards with the character's name and the enemies? Put a dice on the initiative winner and as the fight resolves for each combatants, slide down the die to the next... Sounds easy yet, I show this almost every single time I teach young DMs... Why wasn't it included in the DMG? An erasable board sold at the dollar store can do the same. Just.check each combatants as you go. This is but one example. Tracking one, two, three or ten casters is not that hard once you apply some tricks and prep time to your routine. And as you get experienced, that prep time goes down and and down as it becomes almost a second nature. I plastified a sheet with simple lines for hp tracking and spells slots and an additional line for special powers. Be one or 20 monsters tracking them become a simple matter and not a chore. Why isn't it in the DMG? Almost every experienced DMs I know do something similar.

They botch that part of the DMG and we all know it. Maybe it was for the DMG2?

 

[SkidAce]

/off topic

I ran into a person recently who thought every bit of advice or support offered was ablest.

Made it difficult to help.

As in many things, truth can "often" be found in the middle.

 

[Stoutstien]

The truth? The game lacks one big thing. How to DM effectively. The DMG have extensive display on world building, optional rules and treasure. But adventure building? Just the fact that soon many people ignore that the game is built around the 6-8 encounters per day just show how bad it becomes at DMing during fights.

Adding pages for how to effectively track monsters' powers and HP would add a lot and remove a lot of problems young DMs have at managing fights.

Heck tracking initiative can be so easy and hard at the same time. How many use cards with the character's name and the enemies? Put a dice on the initiative winner and as the fight resolves for each combatants, slide down the die to the next... Sounds easy yet, I show this almost every single time I teach young DMs... Why wasn't it included in the DMG? An erasable board sold at the dollar store can do the same. Just.check each combatants as you go. This is but one example. Tracking one, two, three or ten casters is not that hard once you apply some tricks and prep time to your routine. And as you get experienced, that prep time goes down and and down as it becomes almost a second nature. I plastified a sheet with simple lines for hp tracking and spells slots and an additional line for special powers. Be one or 20 monsters tracking them become a simple matter and not a chore. Why isn't it in the DMG? Almost every experienced DMs I know do something similar.

They botch that part of the DMG and we all know it. Maybe it was for the DMG2?

Probably because the game makes no such assumption of pacing or encounter count. 5es dirty secret is that it only maintains an illusion of balance which is probably a good thing because that's why it maintains it's inherent flexibility.

The 6-8 encounter thing was an ad hoc suggestion based on table feedback not the other way around.

Your overall point stands that DMs lack the support for running games.

 

[Helldritch]

Probably because the game makes no such assumption of pacing or encounter count. 5es dirty secret is that it only maintains an illusion of balance which is probably a good thing because that's why it maintains it's inherent flexibility.

The 6-8 encounter thing was an ad hoc suggestion based on table feedback not the other way around.

Your overall point stands that DMs lack the support for running games.

And yet, just read the DMG carefully. The exp budget for the day should not be spent on to only one encounter and when you take everything into account you get, you guessed it. 6-8 encounters per day. Which is exactly an other relic of 4ed. If you missed it. How many young DM missed it? I almost missed it myself. It is only because we playtested 5ed when it got out that we found out. And we were people with 20 to 40 years into the hobby. Imagine someone new...

 

[Charlaquin]

4th edition is also WHAT? That comment definitely fits a unicorn.

I mean, I liked it because I enjoy tactical combat and 4th was great at that, but superior? Not to 3rd or 5th. I'll give you 2nd, and probably 1st (which I didn't play.) I guess we all have our favorites for different reasons.

4th edition was absolutely the best designed iteration of D&D to date. Unfortunately, I think for many D&D players, that was its fatal flaw. An important part of the experience for many D&D players is the feeling of an organic fantasy world, and design is the opposite of organic…ness. 4e was a precisely-built, well-oiled machine, but a lot of folks didn’t want a machine. Or, at least, they wanted a machine they could imagine wasn’t one.

 

[nevin]

I really really hate the new spellcasting blocks. Just...why? Why was this done?

How does this make it "easier" for DMs?

1. I have no idea the caster level of the monster.
2. I have no idea up to what spell levels they have access to because of that or how many spell slots they have.

What it looks like is all the "Spellcaster" blocks now look like what used to "Spell-Like Abilities" in older editions. I've noticed this in the "Beyond the Witchlight" book and the "Monsters of the Multiverse" book and it's horrible.

Take the latest Vecna stat block from D&D Beyond.

---

At will: animate dead (as an action), detect magic, dispel magic, fly, lightning bolt, mage hand, prestidigitation

2/day each: dimension door, invisibility, scrying (as an action)

1/day each: dominate monster, globe of invulnerability, plane shift (self only).

---

That's it. These are just "spell-like abilities." Where's his magic? This almighty lich has NO SPELLS? He definitely should be able to cast every spell from the Player's Handbook.

Can someone explain to me why the designers decided this? It doesn't make sense. It doesn't make my games "streamlined and easier" at all either.

Do they HAVE to do this? Can't they go back to the original spellcasting block? This is sadly, and angrily, getting ridiculous with their changes.

I'ts good for New inexperience DM;s. I suspect the thought is an experience DM will just assume Vecna is whatever level they need him to be for thier campaign and handle the spell casting as they have always done. For a newbie with newbie players it adds training wheels. Stuff like that make's it easier, and therefore makes it easier to draw in new DM's.