D&D 5E Vs Vecna battle simulations.

[Flamestrike]

Ok, I think I misunderstood the example at first. So, were the rogue and the wizard both hidden behind the parapet at the start of their respective turns?

How?

Vecna can see into the Ethereal and Prime material planes simultaneously cant he?

 

[Charlaquin]

How?

Vecna can see into the Ethereal and Prime material planes simultaneously cant he?

@Swarmkeeper and I were discussing a hypothetical scenario not involving Vecna. Sorry, I know we’re off-topic; we can drop the tangent or carry it on elsewhere if folks prefer.

 

[Flamestrike]

Hang on, it looks like the parapet still blocks LOS in the the Ethereal as well.

You can move through (non living) matter on that plane, but you cant see through it.

 

[DND_Reborn]

I haven't been following some of the stealth discussion, but @Swarmkeeper, if the wizard also spends an action to Hide, beats the target's passive perception score, and then attacks with fire bolt, then the attack would also be with advantage.

The rogue's real benefit is the Hide can be done as a bonus action, so they can attack the same turn, as where the wizard would have to wait until their next turn.

 

[MarkB]

Just digging into this a bit more.

To clarify: I indicated (or tried to indicate) that the wizard and the rogue both popped up from behind the parapet, both made a ranged attack which reveals their location to the enemies, then both ducked behind the same parapet (presumably giving the rogue an opportunity to bonus action hide and... not so much for the wizard). Next round... they both pop up and make a ranged attack.

Some (okay, most) are saying that the rogue has a chance at Advantage on this attack due to "hiding", while I think we all agree that the wizard does not get a chance at Advantage due to "hiding". What's going on here mechanically and narratively that makes sense if both characters are acting basically the same under the same circumstances?

(And I hope I haven't butchered this example... but... then again I did invoke an example... so I partly deserve any pain and frustration that might be coming my way... )

Narratively, the rogue is using their superior expertise to let just the bare minimum of themselves show above the parapet, and lining up their shot in a matter of moments before dropping back out of sight so swiftly that even those who saw him barely perceived more than a shadowy blur before an arrow sped down into the fray.

The wizard, meanwhile, had to poke his whole head (and obligatory pointy hat) above the parapet to line up his shot, and even after he dropped back down onlookers could see glimpses of his staff being fumbled around and hear him muttering as he rifled through his spell component pouch. The only way he could match the deftness of the rogue's performance would be by taking extra time to get it right.

 

[Flamestrike]

Just off the top of my head, wouldnt a 20th level Aberrant Mind Sorcerer wipe the floor with Vecna?

Presuming Mind Blank is active (and why wouldn't it be) he's immune to Dominate person, and Psychic damage, rendering him immune to Vecna's core teleport+damage+heal ability (so no healing for Vecna).

In addition, he can Subtle his own counterspells or normal spells (which Vecna cant counter in return).

Aasimar for the resistance to Necrotic damage to make it a certainty.

 

[MarkB]

Just off the top of my head, wouldnt a 20th level Aberrant Mind Sorcerer wipe the floor with Vecna?

Presuming Mind Blank is active (and why wouldn't it be) he's immune to Dominate person, and Psychic damage, rendering him immune to Vecna's core teleport+damage+heal ability (so no healing for Vecna).

In addition, he can Subtle his own counterspells or normal spells (which Vecna cant counter in return).

Aasimar for the resistance to Necrotic damage to make it a certainty.

Quite possibly. But the purpose of the thread isn't to find the perfect anti-Vecna build. It's to see how Vecna fares against a typical party at various levels.

 

[MonsterEnvy]

Just off the top of my head, wouldnt a 20th level Aberrant Mind Sorcerer wipe the floor with Vecna?

Presuming Mind Blank is active (and why wouldn't it be) he's immune to Dominate person, and Psychic damage, rendering him immune to Vecna's core teleport+damage+heal ability (so no healing for Vecna).

In addition, he can Subtle his own counterspells or normal spells (which Vecna cant counter in return).

Aasimar for the resistance to Necrotic damage to make it a certainty.

Vecna can damage himself to heal if needed.

Vecna can counter subtle spells.

 

[Flamestrike]

Quite possibly. But the purpose of the thread isn't to find the perfect anti-Vecna build. It's to see how Vecna fares against a typical party at various levels.

A 20th level party would wipe the floor with him.

Heck, a single 20th level Devotion Paladin or Aberrant Mind Sorcerer would kill him, as would a BM sharpshooter Fighter of 20th (the Fighters only problem being the Dominate person save).

Of course a 20th level Party should wipe the floor with him, seeing as his XP value is only just over half of an Adventuring days totals, letting them Nova him (although he is a Deadly encounter).

They should be expected to kill him, and then do it all over again, without long resting.

 

[MarkB]

A 20th level party would wipe the floor with him.

Heck, a single 20th level Devotion Paladin or Aberrant Mind Sorcerer would kill him, as would a BM sharpshooter Fighter of 20th (the Fighters only problem being the Dominate person save).

Of course a 20th level Party should wipe the floor with him, seeing as his XP value is only just over half of an Adventuring days totals, letting them Nova him (although he is a Deadly encounter).

They should be expected to kill him, and then do it all over again, without long resting.

Which is why the plan is to run the fight at successively lower levels, and see when - or if - it turns in his favour.