D&D 5E Vs Vecna battle simulations.


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So how would you do it?


Calling this "rules lawyering" isn't something I would do, personally. The rule is there and it is just how the system works. Its not perfect of course, so it can certainly be altered from table to table to fit your style/needs.

I wouldn't either. I can accept hiw the rules work. But I really don't like too much of it.
Something that would make more sense would be using the edges of your base to connect lines.
 







MarkB

Legend
From the Center of the token.
That's not particularly realistic though, because it doesn't reflect how creatures who are in high cover can still peer past that cover quite easily. Take this example:
CoverExample.png

Now, in the real world, a person who's in the orc's position need only peer one eyeball around the edge of that wall, leaving the rest of their body entirely in cover, and they'd clearly see the duergar, with no cover at all - and the rules for measuring from a corner reflect that.

But if we have to measure from the centre of the orc's space, not only is the duergar completely invisible to him, it would still be so until it moved right up to the corner. Meanwhile the orc, despite very obviously being in a far better cover position than the duergar, is actually visible to the duergar under your rules, because a line can be drawn from the centre of the duergar's token that does intersect with at least a sliver of the orc's token.
 

But if you use a square-base, wouldn't that just be the same as using the corners of the square of the grid?
Most bases are circular.

I really don't want to go into detail anymore. Lets just say, the drawn line was correct by the rules but hard to justify in fiction.
In TotM I would just let Vecna teleport or the mage walk to a safe space where they can't see each other. If it might be difficult I'd just allow an int check to correctly judge the distance.
 

If @DND_Reborn is going to run Vecna, how about you make a character?
I'll run Vecna if if @MonsterEnvy doesn't want to, but either way @MonsterEnvy can bring a PC.

Either works for me. I am just itching to play Morcolt! :D
I can make a character, I just can't run them. I am am too busy to run Vecna or a character right now, just a regretful timing thing.

Again, isn't that just one line then? Meaning no cover or total cover??
No. Cause center would still measure to corners of spaces. It's not how the rules actually go but it's how I have been doing them in my own games.

Like the actual rules are you are supposed to measure from the closest corner and measure imaginary lines.

squares_dmg.png
 

DND_Reborn

The High Aldwin
No. Cause center would still measure to corners of spaces. It's not how the rules actually go but it's how I have been doing them in my own games.

Like the actual rules are you are supposed to measure from the closest corner and measure imaginary lines.

squares_dmg.png
Well, if you are measuring from the corner, that isn't center, really. The rules as written actually measure from ANY corner, not the closest.

Now, that being said I TOTALLY agree with you that it SHOULD be closest corner, as your second and third examples illustrate! Which is also the way I do it.

A change I am making however is to draw the lines from corner to matching corner since I think it should include the entire target, not just a single 5-foot square of it.

1656242049209.png



Anyway, when you said Center I thought you meant Center to Center, such as this:
1656241455531.png

Where you would only have a single line between Centers (so no cover and full cover in the two examples above).

Thanks for sharing your examples and how you resolve cover. It is interesting hearing how other DMs/groups run things. :)
 

Stalker0

Legend
If you all still need another character for the next run, I put together Invulnar: the gold dragonborn dragon sorceror!

He's just a generic sorc, full of fire, charisma, and con! Nothing too fancy and no real tricks, just raw sorc power, so should be a good test of a "regular 16th level character" taking on vecna.


ddb.ac/characters/77019893/2kDfVQ
 

DND_Reborn

The High Aldwin
If you all still need another character for the next run, I put together Invulnar: the gold dragonborn dragon sorceror!

He's just a generic sorc, full of fire, charisma, and con! Nothing too fancy and no real tricks, just raw sorc power, so should be a good test of a "regular 16th level character" taking on vecna.


ddb.ac/characters/77019893/2kDfVQ
I think @Smythe the Bard is putting something together today as well, but I know @FitzTheRuke made two, so if Fitz wants to just play one, this could be the 4th.

Either way, I want to get something started this afternoon with initial set-up.

For your PC, do you have any spells pre-cast before the encounter begins?? I know Morcolt will have True Seeing already going, for example.
 

Stalker0

Legend
I think @Smythe the Bard is putting something together today as well, but I know @FitzTheRuke made two, so if Fitz wants to just play one, this could be the 4th.

Either way, I want to get something started this afternoon with initial set-up.

For your PC, do you have any spells pre-cast before the encounter begins?? I know Morcolt will have True Seeing already going, for example.
If the plan is literally cast some spells and then boom we fight Vecna, I will pre cast eyebite. If its more "well it will be a few minutes between buffs and vecna", then I'm good.

So funny note about Eyebite. While Vecna does not require sleep, he is not actually immune to being put to sleep through eyebite ;) However, if that's just "too hokey", we can always go for the sickening effect.
 

Stalker0

Legend
For my fellow party members, my general plan with Vecna initially I'm going to hit him with raw conditions, using quickened to get as many out as quick as I can. I'll try to burn through his reactions/legendary resistances as fast as I can manage. Once those are down, I'll turn on heightened to try and finish the job. If instead it looks like we are beating up his HP fairly quickly, then I will start pilling on the damage with just raw evocation pain
 

DND_Reborn

The High Aldwin
I've added Invulnar to the battle map on Roll20, so if you check the link you should see him there.

 

FitzTheRuke

Legend
For my fellow party members, my general plan with Vecna initially I'm going to hit him with raw conditions, using quickened to get as many out as quick as I can. I'll try to burn through his reactions/legendary resistances as fast as I can manage. Once those are down, I'll turn on heightened to try and finish the job. If instead it looks like we are beating up his HP fairly quickly, then I will start pilling on the damage with just raw evocation pain

My plan is to have Broodhuz run at him and start slamming with his greatsword, like all good Barbarians!

(If we have enough characters, I will save my other one for next time and level him down to 12).
 

DND_Reborn

The High Aldwin
My plan is to have Broodhuz run at him and start slamming with his greatsword, like all good Barbarians!

(If we have enough characters, I will save my other one for next time and level him down to 12).
Cool. Morcolt plans to unload a whole lot of pain the first round to the tune of 100+ damage hopefully.

With Hurl through Hell, you will all have one round while Vecna is gone to move/prep/cast freely.

I'm going to wait a bit to see if @Smythe the Bard chimes in with a PC, and if not then Fitz can run two?
 


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