D&D 5E Vecna's Dread Counterspell vs. Counterspell -- What's the Diff?

[James Gasik]

Again though, other reaction spells can do that. Shield has Verbal and Somatic components, after all...

 

[Vaalingrade]

This would be entirely unnecessary if Vecna, undead smart guy, replaced his missing eye with a Death Tyrant eye, and his missing hand with like a sweet Nightwalker hand.

 

[Zubatcarteira]

Shield does specify that it works after the hit though, it actually only works if they get a hit, you can't even preemptively put it up after a miss.

 

[James Gasik]

Shield does specify that it works after the hit though, it actually only works if they get a hit, you can't even preemptively put it up after a miss.

I know, but it's just weird that some abilities work that way and others don't, without much explanation as to how/why that works.

 

[Maxperson]

Because the wording is "Vecna utters a dread word to interrupt a creature he can see that is casting a spell". That doesn't really work out if he counters after the spell goes off, unless he's breaking the laws of causality, which I guess would be cool, but I wouldn't call it the raw or how it's intended. That he needs to react and say a word means that he can't do it if he's unaware of the casting, imo.

Not if you run it like the Shield spell, though. Shield goes off after the hit, but can make that "hit" a miss.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

It is, unfortunately confusing!

But as outlined in this thread. My (and a quite a few others) position is, it doesn't matter that he "knows." The wording of Dread Counterspell is such that IF he can see the target AND that target is casting a spell, he can Dread Counterspell.

Vecna knowing makes the most sense, but it's not necessary per the description of Dread Counterspell (yes, this last bit is disputed).

The adventure helps but is also not 100% clear. It states that he always knows the capabilities of any spellcasters in the party and that he can identify any spell being cast without having to make a skill check.

my issue is that if the note from the adventure was in the stat block I would 100% agree (then again I think the legendary actions should be too... maybe with a note saying this is him setting up)

as is it could go either way based on DM reading.... and I am always leaning toward 'you can't react unless you know'

 

[MarkB]

Given that both of Vecna's reactions involve him speaking a word, you could go a long way towards shutting him down by casting Silence around him from cover.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

Given that both of Vecna's reactions involve him speaking a word, you could go a long way towards shutting him down by casting Silence around him from cover.

that is funny

 

[Maxperson]

Given that both of Vecna's reactions involve him speaking a word, you could go a long way towards shutting him down by casting Silence around him from cover.

IF you could set it up so that you could reach a spot near him from cover. That's unlikely, though, with a being who has been battling with spells for thousands of years. He's going to know about that tactic and have it set up so that you can't do it without being in sight.

 

[Mort]

GIven Vecna's statblock, he's not THAT powerful in person (lots of exploitable weaknesses relative to a CR of 26).

But as a distant harasser, he's very, very nasty.

Again, thanks to Dread Counterspell, he can counter spells while scrying - and he can do it to multiple spellcasters in a round. That alone will completely wreck even a high level party.