D&D General What Constitutes "Old School" D&D

[doctorbadwolf]

It's still useful and interesting, though, and some OSR designers have gone back and, for example, tried to create a more freeform magic system that would actually be a good fit for the "player skill, not character abilities" ethos.

Yeah I based my entire skill system around “player skill”, in a sense, though it isn’t an OSR game in any way. Give players a toolkit of ideas and parameters, let them only be good at some of them, make the ladder of success clear and distinct, and then let the players “Gary’s mod” the world using those “physics engine/portal gun” skills.

Ie, “Fire Magic allows you to create spark, bloom existing fire into larger fire or dampen it into embers, and to move flames as if manipulating a tangible substance. Basic usage is limited to your immediate surroundings, and effects no larger than a yard or two. Greater effects are harder, and more taxing. You can spend 1 (resource) to attempt a Greater Working, like putting out a house fire, creating a 10 yard circle of continuous flame, or mixing fire magic with another skill.”
Can be the entire “rules text” of a skill. Spells are just specific manuevers you or another character have worked out and codified to be easier to do (all improvised Greater Workings are done at a small penalty).

The point when this really sunk in for me was watching the D&D episode of Gravity Falls. There was a throwaway joke about “the dark times” when DD&D tried too hard to be cool, which to me was pretty obviously a jab at 4e. But it was framed as a bygone era of the game’s history that old-timers are relieved to be over and the new generation is lucky not to have lived through.

That sounds more like a 90’s/late 2e and 3/.5e dig, to me.

 

[Charlaquin]

That sounds more like a 90’s/late 2e and 3/.5e dig, to me.

In context it felt like a 4e joke to me, but I guess it was subtle enough you could read it as any edition. Regardless, it made me realize 4e was no longer the new kid on the block that got unfairly maligned because grognards didn’t like that it was doing something new. It’s an old edition that new players will likely look back on as an odd one out, for better or worse.

 

[Reynard]

In context it felt like a 4e joke to me, but I guess it was subtle enough you could read it as any edition. Regardless, it made me realize 4e was no longer the new kid on the block that got unfairly maligned because grognards didn’t like that it was doing something new. It’s an old edition that new players will likely look back on as an odd one out, for better or worse.

Not to pull the discussion too far off track, but I have often wondered what would have happened if they had done a non D&D legacy game with the system first (Gamma World -- but less beer n pretzel -- or Star Frontiers or something) and introduced it that way. I wonder if it then being applied to a new edition of D&D would have been less "shocking."

 

[billd91]

Not to pull the discussion too far off track, but I have often wondered what would have happened if they had done a non D&D legacy game with the system first (Gamma World -- but less beer n pretzel -- or Star Frontiers or something) and introduced it that way. I wonder if it then being applied to a new edition of D&D would have been less "shocking."

Star Wars Saga Edition fits partly into that shoe. And it’s generally pretty good but with a few kinks in it. We willingly play it a LOT more than we ever played 4e.

 

[Cadence]

This has come up a couple times recently, so I am just curious what the EN World community at large consider "old school" in context of D&D. In the poll, answer when the LATEST part of the Old School is (so if you pick Mid1980s, it assumes everything before that is also Old School.)

B/X is Moldvay/Cook, right? 1981? So the mid-to-late 80s feels odd there.
Mentzer starting BECMI was 1983?

(Skimmed through three pages looking for a comment on it and didn't see it or skim further).

 

[Reynard]

B/X is Moldvay/Cook, right? 1981? So the mid-to-late 80s feels odd there.
Mentzer starting BECMI was 1983?

(Skimmed through three pages looking for a comment on it and didn't see it or skim further).

You were looking for the 2nd option.

 

[Cadence]

You were looking for the 2nd option.

That's what I chose, just threw me off when reading the choices.

Thanks for running the poll!

 

[Oofta]

Not to pull the discussion too far off track, but I have often wondered what would have happened if they had done a non D&D legacy game with the system first (Gamma World -- but less beer n pretzel -- or Star Frontiers or something) and introduced it that way. I wonder if it then being applied to a new edition of D&D would have been less "shocking."

I think it had more to do with being rushed out the door combined with overly aggressive software development tie-ins.

I'm just glad they made the effort with the extensive playtests for 5E to get feedback, even if it could never be perfect.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

In context it felt like a 4e joke to me, but I guess it was subtle enough you could read it as any edition. Regardless, it made me realize 4e was no longer the new kid on the block that got unfairly maligned because grognards didn’t like that it was doing something new. It’s an old edition that new players will likely look back on as an odd one out, for better or worse.

It has its own entire cultures of revival, reimagination, and continued play however.

 

[Vaalingrade]

In context it felt like a 4e joke to me, but I guess it was subtle enough you could read it as any edition. Regardless, it made me realize 4e was no longer the new kid on the block that got unfairly maligned because grognards didn’t like that it was doing something new. It’s an old edition that new players will likely look back on as an odd one out, for better or worse.

For me, there will always be The Old Ones I Didn't Play, My First One, The Good One, and The One My Friends Make Me Play Because It Has Online Support.