A critique and review of the Fighter class

[GMforPowergamers]

But it might not be possible to design a game to completely satisfy both.

I mean you could just add a class (warlord, warblade, swordsage, marshal, animebattledude) and be able to do both.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

So the person who doesn’t think non-magical humans should be able to do superhuman things should just not play at higher tiers? Ummm.

Like I said, I don’t see how one game satisfies both camps.

you have two different classes... or 3 (my choice is 3 combat classes but hey) or 5. then you don't have to use the one that doesn't fit

 

[HammerMan]

And the first one, the Fighter: is it normal human or superhuman? Seems that one group or the other is still unhappy.

The idea is that the name doesn’t matter. If the fighter is the superhuman and the champion is the normal one or if the fighter is the normal and the war blade is the superhuman. You can have BOTH

 

[GMforPowergamers]

I guess what really needs to be examined is why the myth that an ordinary man can take on demigods persists. In mythology, heroes who have to fight monsters are routinely given special powers to explain how they go about. Not always, I mean, there's always my man, Odysseus, who somehow makes do by being very, very wily (to the point that his craftiness is almost a legitimate superpower!), but often.

I can not name a mythological hero who is 'just some dude'. I bet there is, even if I can't place it right now.

I know comic book/ superheroes are not exactly the same (although I would argue still a modern myth) it is the fact that even if Tim Drake is 'just a kid' day 1, by the end of his first year as Robin he is 'just a kid who trained under a superhuman martial artist of the league of shadows' but of course in a world where no one can see through any disguise the 'just a kid' who figured out who batman is really isn't starting as 'just a kid'

Maybe it's special training from Scathach. Maybe you're half or even 2/3 God. Maybe it's some cool magic swag* (yeah, maybe Perseus is half god, but he doesn't seem to have any powers like his half-brother Herakles).

he is as godly as John Wick or John Mclean... able to be better then anyone else and take punishment noone else can.

But it's usually something, a special destiny, something that sets them apart and makes them a legend.

I think we call that plot armor now

But for the most part, these archetypical Fighters from legend who fight against the sorts of challenges a mid-to-high level Fighter face are pretty much all paragons if not demigods in their own right.

So why is the D&D Fighter held to a different metric? Because...tradition?

I think that back when the wizard had 3d4hp and could throw 1 2nd level spell and 3 1st level spells all day the fighter with 3d10hp and 3 attacks every 2 rounds was great... especially if those spells were really limted.

the problem is as each edition (even 1st and 2nd) goes on we get new and better spells. We rarely get new and better fighter abilities.

*In the old days, yeah, a high level character would have a ton of magic swag, just like how legendary figures occasionally are just as famed for their possessions as their deeds (Like King Arthur). But we've let that aspect of the game fall away, to the point that magic items are optional, and even if used, those optional rules further limit people to three attunement slots. If we can let such a fundamental part of the game, finding cool magic items in deep dungeons to bolster one's power go, why does "Joe Normal, Slayer of Beasts" linger?

 

[Minigiant]

The thing is you don't need to be supernatural to be a fighter capable of fighting mythical threats.

It's just that the normal fighters who do either have:

1. High Brainpower (Super smart, perceptive, or charming)
2. Henchman and a backing Organization
3. A hard to get title that carries mechanical and exclusive weight
4. More Money than other people other their tier

 

[Garthanos]

Yeah, this I agree with. It doesn't need to be superhuman.

now match that up against a house sized tank armored super genius flying lizard which breaths fire and the like.. I then think it does need to be superhuman to be plausible. None of that has been allowed to scale.

 

[Garthanos]

The thing is you don't need to be supernatural to be a fighter capable of fighting mythical threats.

It's just that the normal fighters who do either have:

1. High Brainpower (Super smart, perceptive, or charming)
2. Henchman and a backing Organization
3. A hard to get title that carries mechanical and exclusive weight
4. More Money than other people other their tier

Batman only ever worked because of gadgets and when his enemies were lower tier ... every fighter is now a gadgeteer or seriously item dependent at high levels.

It can work as an option. I am the fated wielder of Excalibur or Stormbringer (whose power grows as I level).

 

[Minigiant]

Batman only ever worked because of gadgets and when his enemies were lower tier ... every fighter is now a gadgeteer or seriously item dependent at high levels.

It can work as an option. I am the fated wielder of Excalibur or Stormbringer (whose power grows as I level).

Batman's mind is usually emphasized vs higher tier does.

So Batman has Mind, Money, Henchman/Backing/Tech, and a Fearsome Title.

 

[Bill Zebub]

now match that up against a house sized tank armored super genius flying lizard which breaths fire and the like.. I then think it does need to be superhuman to be plausible. None of that has been allowed to scale.

I can respect the desire to view the fiction resulting from the mechanics that way, but it’s not the only way.

c.f. The Hobbit

 

[GMforPowergamers]

I can respect the desire to view the fiction resulting from the mechanics that way, but it’s not the only way.

c.f. The Hobbit

What character in the Hobbit are you useing as a high level fighter?