A critique and review of the Fighter class

[Garthanos]

I think the point of contention is that D&D is a game of 3-5 tiers of play.

And for the fighter, going past the first 2 tiers either require breaking reality in some way (magic, special origin, inhuman ability) or breaking the party balance dynamic (Gold, Henchmen, Domain, Extra Stats).

D&D has stayed away from answering the question or giving options to.

I think this points to a productive thought

In 4e they used Paragon Paths and Epic Destinies to get things like Domains and the discovery of Special Origins and so on into the story. D&D did not stay away it strayed away (If we brought something like those back)... Significant amount of ones superior stats were assumed in 4e (though tidbits where included in those special origins) as one progressed so stunts and extraordinary skill use would reasonably become larger than life just based on stats (let alone the level advancement).

In 5e a DM could gift a character with girdles of giant strength and Excalibur and similar so the superhuman stats are not exactly anathema to 5e... magic items with such overwhelming dramatic impact on character ability and character identity are not presented in 4e and if they were the game gives players an influence over their own acquisition. I would actually say they were more likely to appear as a function of an Epic Destiny.

Spoiler: Level 20 == Level 30

(The definition given for the highest tier of 5e corresponds in theory to the highest tier of 4e ignore the level number and the description of the 2nd tier corresponds to heroic tier in 4e so I do not think you can simply put this off into post 20 levels).

Someone built the 4e martial exploits as learnable magic items basically... this hints at a way to bring thing in. A "magic item" sometimes called "empowered bloodline" or any of the epic destinies from 4e... these could be an heirloom item and have a buffing effect which brings one into superhuman categories for a primary and perhaps a secondary stat it could have flavors there of so it wasn't boring . Blood of Numenor would be different than descendant of Zeus which would be different than child of Athena or The Heralded King OR you could have a standard Legendary Item *made heirloom be your Fated Wielder item.

A fighter might be simply given as a class feature the choice of one legendary heirloom "item". Heirloom in the sense that it starts weak and eventually becomes legendary as you advance.

 

[Minigiant]

A fighter might be simply given as a class feature the choice of one legendary heirloom "item". Heirloom in the sense that it starts weak and eventually becomes legendary as you advance.

Said it before.

A heirlom fated item that can't be stolen would be great for a Fighter subclass.

Like a hexblade but not dark. Like If you kill enough dudes, a magic item seeks you out to attune with you.

 

[Minigiant]

One thing I pondered since my last game is that of all classes, the fighter feels most appropriate to gain a noncombat feature based of social class/caste.

All the other classes push hard to a social class. What if the fighter got a bons to one of the dead skills of 5e

Noble- Knowledge Nobility
Priest- Decipher Script
Warrior- Knowledge Local
Merchant- Appraise
Smith- Craft
Peasant- Streetwise

 

[Garthanos]

Said it before.

A heirlom fated item that can't be stolen would be great for a Fighter subclass.

Like a hexblade but not dark. Like If you kill enough dudes, a magic item seeks you out to attune with you.

Gygax once said items were intended to better support fighters...

 

[GMforPowergamers]

Someone built the 4e martial exploits as learnable magic items basically... this hints at a way to bring thing in. A "magic item" sometimes called "empowered bloodline" or any of the epic destinies from 4e...

I ran a campaign useing the Middle Earth 5e rules and I made Bo9S and 4e exploits along with some spells into Boons you could learn if you found someone that had them and took a month or more.

it was a great martial game where warriors were the main focus. I even had a PC who wanted to be a 'master of 9' type character and he spent most of his game time tracking down masters to learn from and meld there syles...

 

[Minigiant]

Gygax once said items were intended to better support fighters...

In the old editions everything supported the fighters

• Fighters got the best combat items
• Fighters got strongholds and domains first. And better ones.
• NPCs would talk to the fighters first.

Remove these...

 

[doctorbadwolf]

I think this points to a productive thought

In 4e they used Paragon Paths and Epic Destinies to get things like Domains and the discovery of Special Origins and so on into the story. D&D did not stay away it strayed away (If we brought something like those back)... Significant amount of ones superior stats were assumed in 4e (though tidbits where included in those special origins) as one progressed so stunts and extraordinary skill use would reasonably become larger than life just based on stats (let alone the level advancement).

In 5e a DM could gift a character with girdles of giant strength and Excalibur and similar so the superhuman stats are not exactly anathema to 5e... magic items with such overwhelming dramatic impact on character ability and character identity are not presented in 4e and if they were the game gives players an influence over their own acquisition. I would actually say they were more likely to appear as a function of an Epic Destiny.

Spoiler: Level 20 == Level 30

(The definition given for the highest tier of 5e corresponds in theory to the highest tier of 4e ignore the level number and the description of the 2nd tier corresponds to heroic tier in 4e so I do not think you can simply put this off into post 20 levels).

Someone built the 4e martial exploits as learnable magic items basically... this hints at a way to bring thing in. A "magic item" sometimes called "empowered bloodline" or any of the epic destinies from 4e... these could be an heirloom item and have a buffing effect which brings one into superhuman categories for a primary and perhaps a secondary stat it could have flavors there of so it wasn't boring . Blood of Numenor would be different than descendant of Zeus which would be different than child of Athena or The Heralded King OR you could have a standard Legendary Item *made heirloom be your Fated Wielder item.

A fighter might be simply given as a class feature the choice of one legendary heirloom "item". Heirloom in the sense that it starts weak and eventually becomes legendary as you advance.

What about an epic boon?

 

[doctorbadwolf]

In the old editions everything supported the fighters

• Fighters got the best combat items
• Fighters got strongholds and domains first. And better ones.
• NPCs would talk to the fighters first.

Remove these...

See yeah I rarely have fighters in my games, but I would love to give the fighter some “benefit of the doubt” stuff, like adding half-proficiency to any non-prof check to interact with someone from the same background or trained in the same “school”, etc. along with some stuff like followers and strongholds.

The problem is, I also want the Paladin to get the ability to attract squires and retainers, the cleric to gain petitioners, the wizard apprentices, etc.

Perhaps a separate layer of design that gives all classes stuff like this to choose from, and the ones available only to fighters are just a bit juicier? Maybe fighters get access a little earlier (but not early enough to have folks MC fighter just for it).

 

[Minigiant]

See yeah I rarely have fighters in my games, but I would love to give the fighter some “benefit of the doubt” stuff, like adding half-proficiency to any non-prof check to interact with someone from the same background or trained in the same “school”, etc. along with some stuff like followers and strongholds.

The problem is, I also want the Paladin to get the ability to attract squires and retainers, the cleric to gain petitioners, the wizard apprentices, etc.

Perhaps a separate layer of design that gives all classes stuff like this to choose from, and the ones available only to fighters are just a bit juicier? Maybe fighters get access a little earlier (but not early enough to have folks MC fighter just for it).

That's the thing The old editions locked out most of those things to other classes or made the fighter ones better. And when it did neither, the assumption was that the DM was going to "cheat" for the fighter.

Fighter : My fighter is a knight.
DM: Oh yeah. You get a bonus to your roll.
Wizard: My wizard has a higher title than a knight though.
DM: But you are a wizard.

It only works if people are okay with class favoritism.

 

[James Gasik]

In the old editions everything supported the fighters

• Fighters got the best combat items
• Fighters got strongholds and domains first. And better ones.
• NPCs would talk to the fighters first.

Remove these...

Wait, why would NPC's talk to Fighters first?