DTRPG Says 'Don't criticize us or we'll ban you'

[Bedrockgames]

Second, lots of edgelord creators would use those specifics against you when it came down to needing to delist a product. Imagine giving Varg the exact guidelines he needs to put his racist products on the platform.

I think you could solve that by not allowing someone like Varg to put content on the platform. You can have edgy content available but draw the line at someone like Varg

 

[Bedrockgames]

Agree those thing are important, but I don't think they'll be giving out any specifics.

For one, any statement from a company saying you condone products with those things is a bad look.

Second, lots of edgelord creators would use those specifics against you when it came down to needing to delist a product. Imagine giving Varg the exact guidelines he needs to put his racist products on the platform.

Much better to stay vague in both instances.

This puts a lot of power in the hands of Drive-Thru of course, but as you pointed out, they've done a pretty good job of wielding it, so I'm not going to fuss anymore about it until something worthwhile actually gets banned, haha.

I look at it two ways: in terms of what I need to know as a publishers which is one thing, and concern over free expression in the hobby, which is another. For the former, I just think the language makes me uneasy about what I am actually allowed to do. And I don't have enough clarity on how this has been enforced and how it will be enforced. I am also concerned that with the existing language, any change behind the scenes could suddenly make the standards enforced more strictly (so if you have a number of products up that aren't even edgy---none of mine are particularly edgy IMO---but deal in the kinds of themes you see in genre literature or movies, or even certain myths and fairytales). I have sent queries over matters like this in the past and received solid information in return.

On the free expression, I think its important for everyone to weigh in and give their view. I don't expect everyone to hold my position. I worry about the language (and have when it has come up in the past) because I think the ideal state for the hobby on a platform like this (where again people will disagree, not trying to relitigate, but IMO OBS is very powerful and important in terms of what books get made) to allow for the most wide range of content possible. I especially worry that things with nuance, irony, etc could get swept up in these guidelines, and I worry that different people will have very different takes on what constitutes a violation (i.e. the whole are orcs racist thing). That said, whatever the terms are, I am a publisher and have to abide by them (which again is why I always make a point of giving my opinion when the subject comes up). Here I would echo a point in my previous paragraph to about worrying where this goes in the future.

 

[Jahydin]

Quite frankly the only truly moral stance is an acceptance (if not outright embrace) of inclusion and a fully throated and consistently upheld exclusion of intolerance, hatred, and bigotry.

Does this carry over to the fictional works too or are you strictly talking about IRL?

Like say, The Witcher setting where there is cruel, racial (human, dwarf, elf) prejudice. Would you want that removed?

 

[Jahydin]

I think you could solve that by not allowing someone like Varg to put content on the platform. You can have edgy content available but draw the line at someone like Varg

I see what you mean, but I think their goal isn't so much a line, but a large fuzzy "might get banned" gradient so the content doesn't even approach Vargs, lol.

 

[Jahydin]

@Bedrockgames
I think your concerns are valid. Only time will tell though.

In the mean time, you can see what content is already being offered (especially if a best seller) and get an idea of what's allowed. Just knowing you can be as politically vocal as Pundit or create as depraved content as Raggi means you're probably going to be safe uploading there.

 

[Gradine]

Does this carry over to the fictional works too or are you strictly talking about IRL?

Like say, The Witcher setting where there is cruel, racial (human, dwarf, elf) prejudice. Would you want that removed?

Absolutely not. Fiction can be great way to explore the ways in which we can confront the very real evils that plague us in the real world, including all matter of prejudice and hatred.

On the other hand, I would draw the line at fiction (or any other work) that glorifies and/or promotes these evils. Such works are not so much valueless as they are value-negative, and there is a moral, if clearly not a legal, imperative to prevent the spread of such an odious ideology. This is especially true for those who maintain and manage platforms for the spread of shared human creativity.

If you have the power to prevent the spread of bigoted propaganda on your platform, and you refuse to use that power, then that is an abject moral failure.

 

[Jahydin]

Absolutely not. Fiction can be great way to explore the ways in which we can confront the very real evils that plague us in the real world, including all matter of prejudice and hatred.

On the other hand, I would draw the line at fiction (or any other work) that glorifies and/or promotes these evils. Such works are not so much valueless as they are value-negative, and there is a moral, if clearly not a legal, imperative to prevent the spread of such an odious ideology. This is especially true for those who maintain and manage platforms for the spread of shared human creativity.

If you have the power to prevent the spread of bigoted propaganda on your platform, and you refuse to use that power, then that is an abject moral failure.

Oh, cool. Understandable.

I don't think I'm quite as critical though. I'm thinking of my time as a kid role-playing The Coalition from Rifts (military faction obsessed with the destruction of all non-humans). What started off as fun being a "fascist-bro" stomping clearly evil monsters became quite the learning experience once more "grey" situations arose (I think we had to clear out a sewer of D-Bees who more or less was just trying to survive), which led to us breaking away and attempting to thwart them "form the inside".

How do you feel about material like that in a game?

Picture to get an idea of how the character classes were portrayed in the art:

 

[Crusadius]

How do you feel about material like that in a game?

I think your misconstruing the intention of the policy.

RaHoWa and its ilk are likely games that would fall under its auspices.

 

[Bacon Bits]

I think your misconstruing the intention of the policy.

That's part of the issue. The policy doesn't voice the intent. Many rules and policies don't do that. Intent usually doesn't survive implementation. Over time, as leadership changes or it's politics do, how will the policy be used as a written rule independent of the intent behind it?

In other words, we're all happy to see Venger gone. What happens when it's Evil Hat's Thirsty Sword Lesbians? It's naive to expect DTRPG to always have progressive moderation. What happens when they turn into Facebook? It's not like they've had much competition sweeping in to capture their market. It's worth thinking about or recognizing that it may happen.

 

[Crusadius]

It's naive to expect DTRPG to always have progressive moderation.

When DTRPG stop having progressive moderation, do you think they’ll stick to whatever guidelines they’ve set up for themselves?

And note that one of the “complaints” is that its progressive moderation causes problems for some people.