payn
Glory to Marik
I was speaking to 4E fans about my PF2 suggestion, though I think its still a good suggestion for any RPG fan. The SRD makes it a very low investment to at least try.
D&D 5E Is 5E Special
- Thread starter Reynard
- Start date
The-Magic-Sword
Small Ball Archmage
Yeah, id say it really depends on their pain points and how much they like BA, or Magic Items not being worked into progression and stuff like that.
I will say though, we were hardcore 5e players between like 2015 and 2019 and it was exactly what the doctor ordered for just about all of my 5e players.
Shardstone
Hero
This is true, do I need to copy and paste the levels? Its usually between 3-5 features, and some of those features are choices from options of around 3-6 things.
The-Magic-Sword
Small Ball Archmage
I already posted the progression of a fighter from 3 to 6 up thread, right out of my pathbuilder.
Shardstone
Hero
Only correction I have is its usually 2 things that you pick from lists of, which instead of 3 things, at the minimum. Here's the Sorcerer class table Sorcerer - Classes - Archives of Nethys: Pathfinder 2nd Edition Database
Like, the sheer amount of choice and options on odd levels plus always picking from at least two lists of things each level is a LOT MORE mechanical content then 5E. They are in no way comparable in terms of actual feature choice.
Shardstone
Hero
And that's not even getting into the massive tag system PF2E has, its huge list of conditions, the many differences in the action economy, and so on.
Like, saying play PF2E is like telling someone bored with chess to jump straight into 40K, and then pretending that both games are neck-n-neck in similarities.
Like, saying play PF2E is like telling someone bored with chess to jump straight into 40K, and then pretending that both games are neck-n-neck in similarities.
payn
Glory to Marik
On paper PF2 can be beast to run for sure. Conditions card deck can help since most of them just impose a -1 penalty to the PC. Like the feats and leveling up its deceptively complicated, but easy to run with your ducks in a row. Also, Foundry makes it so simple to do all chargen, level up, and game mastering with automation. Everything is a simple click away. PF2 is a step up in difficulty, but I believe 5E players can handle it.
The-Magic-Sword
Small Ball Archmage
Chess actually requires more study, between it and WH, its absurd depth is why its still being innovated on.
But my group found pf2e largely easier to pick up than 5e-- a big part of that is that the conditions and tags make the system easier to reference because they reappear consistently throughout feats, and the choices are all bite sized so they stick out in the mind better. 3 action is more inuitive than explaining bonus actions and dashes, etc.
But my group found pf2e largely easier to pick up than 5e-- a big part of that is that the conditions and tags make the system easier to reference because they reappear consistently throughout feats, and the choices are all bite sized so they stick out in the mind better. 3 action is more inuitive than explaining bonus actions and dashes, etc.
I guess I just don't find 5E significantly better or worse than previous editions. That may not be saying much though. For example I threw Lollth (CR 30+) against a group of level 21 PCs in 4E. They curb stomped her without breaking a sweat.
In 5E I limit what the PCs can get and I'm kind of stingy on gold. Very few house rules required and I can threaten and engage PCs at all levels.
Shardstone
Hero
I don't think the game is overly complex, my point is and remains the same: the two games are very different, and one is a lot more nuanced than the other.
