D&D 5E Is 5E Special

[GMforPowergamers]

Did the wizard really say "actions"?

I mean there was no real wizard... we are sitting at a tabble playing a game, and we playing the game know actions.

now I don't have a 1=1 for that exchange as I said it was mostly tongue in cheek, but yeah... the wizard can change the game.

And still you are comparing apples and oranges.

teleport circle is a 5th level spell (90% sure) so wizards can grab it at 9th level... compairing it to a fighter getting a third attack (and now I will go full born power gaming) that can power attack and reroll 1's and 2's and crit 19+ for 2d6+18 damage is laughable. That is what I am saying. IT IS APPLES AND ORANGES, except its also a huge power and option boost... the wizard can visit the fruit stand and grab any 5 fruits or vegetables but if he chooses an apple it will be only 80% the size of the fighter (but he still gets 4 more fruit so he can grab that orange, and that banana too)

From those few statements, it seems that your group is very antagonistic. But that might be a misinterpretation due to relativ few points to extrapolate.

maybe you should go search out some of my actual play examples... it wont have a 11th level fighter and 11thh level wizard in the same party though cause we only use the non caster classes for multi class or if we all agree not to go full caster so no one is out power the party.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

We really comparing a car exploding to D&D not being balanced enough?

what would you prefer?

"My windows 95 freezes and crashes my computer"
"there is no need to fix that mine never does"

"My wife might be cheating on me what should I do?"
"Nothing, my wife isn't cheating on me so it doesn't matter"

"25,000 of this space heater has been sold world wide and just about 5% of them are shorting out and starting fires, should the company fix that"
"No I have been useing that space heater for 8 years with no problem, I not only don't want the fix but I don't want ANYONE else to get the fix since it hasn't effected me"


edit: this has come off more sarcastic then I meant... so let me ask you @payn directly. what is the analogy for someone that has had others report an issue but since that issue has not as of yet effected them personally they not only don't want it fixed for those people who have it but they claim that it is those peoples own falut?

 

[UngeheuerLich]

I mean there was no real wizard... we are sitting at a tabble playing a game, and we playing the game know actions.

now I don't have a 1=1 for that exchange as I said it was mostly tongue in cheek, but yeah... the wizard can change the game.

teleport circle is a 5th level spell (90% sure) so wizards can grab it at 9th level... compairing it to a fighter getting a third attack (and now I will go full born power gaming) that can power attack and reroll 1's and 2's and crit 19+ for 2d6+18 damage is laughable. That is what I am saying. IT IS APPLES AND ORANGES, except its also a huge power and option boost... the wizard can visit the fruit stand and grab any 5 fruits or vegetables but if he chooses an apple it will be only 80% the size of the fighter (but he still gets 4 more fruit so he can grab that orange, and that banana too)



maybe you should go search out some of my actual play examples... it wont have a 11th level fighter and 11thh level wizard in the same party though cause we only use the non caster classes for multi class or if we all agree not to go full caster so no one is out power the party.

This is not necessary. I take your word for it. And obviously you found your solution.
For us there is no problem with 6th level spells for vs 3rd attack for fighters.
We are happy that the wizard can solve those problems for the group while the fighter has different things to do.

 

[payn]

what would you prefer?

"My windows 95 freezes and crashes my computer"
"there is no need to fix that mine never does"

"My wife might be cheating on me what should I do?"
"Nothing, my wife isn't cheating on me so it doesn't matter"

"25,000 of this space heater has been sold world wide and just about 5% of them are shorting out and starting fires, should the company fix that"
"No I have been useing that space heater for 8 years with no problem, I not only don't want the fix but I don't want ANYONE else to get the fix since it hasn't effected me"

I get that this is super important to you, but these examples...

It doesnt bother most folks, and that sucks for you. All you can do is submit surveys, playtest, offer your opinions when asked for. Making it sound like the D&D product doesnt work right, or is on par with malfunctioning product that kills people, isnt going to get you there. It just isnt that serious.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

It doesnt bother most folks, and that sucks for you.

citation needed... I see a bunch of people that avoid these arguments and a small number that say nobody cares (your side) and a small number that says it's a real problem that should be fixed (my side) and no way to know what % is what...

and even then, for this game, how many people have to be noticing a problem? is it 51% (the slight majority) or is 25% enough (1 in 4) what about 10%? 5%? what % of players must run into this before you think it is worth talking about with out things like "Sucks to be you"?

now the funny part is that some % of people on your side (the don't change it, it isn't broken) still use house rules or work arounds to stop the problem that they claim isn't a problem.

All you can do is submit surveys, playtest, offer your opinions when asked for.

yup I do all that. I also take every chance here, on face book, on twitter (although rare I am on there), on tic tock on redit (on it more then twitter but still rarer then the others) and other message boards. I also have started to go back to Cons and LGS and as such talk there about it too.

Making it sound like the D&D product doesnt work right, or is on par with malfunctioning product that kills people, isnt going to get you there. It just isnt that serious.

then give me a better analogy... I will admit I went big to show how crazy the thought it "It didn't effect me so it doesn't need fixing"

 

[Nikosandros]

Personally I don't know what kind of super-secret spreadsheet the design team has. My very limited experience is that balance isn't great but it more or less works. One thing that 5e, IMO, has in common with older editions is that it is quite easy to fiddle with the numbers and do some "quick & dirty" tuning. I do it all the time both in AD&D and in 5e. In my experience, the only really balanced edition is 4e.

 

[Parmandur]

this guy who works for the company made a youtube video and said everything works... why didn't you say so.

Why didn't ford try that, would have saved them a lot of money on the pinto

He goes into the math quite a bit, please go give it a listen. One can learn a lot about the logic of the game from that podcast, amd it gets very practical.

except it isn't...

we need to get through the bog of trolls, and up the cliffs of dragons and past teh deadly shadow beast to get to the ruins... it will take a few days, or we can rent a boat, sail around for two months land at the city of theives guild really runs it and head up 2 days on an easier root...

"Or I can cast teleport circle and use the ruines we know for there and we skip all that"

yeah that's the equivalent of a handful of dice of damage.

now that is tongue in cheek, but lets talk a real example I have seen.

"Man, we don't have a lot of time how fast can we build walls" the martial character asks
"You a couple days, me a few actions" says the wizard.

Sure, everyone gets a narrative spot to shine. Wizards get theirs, in exchange for a resource with a specific hit point value.

 

[payn]

citation needed... I see a bunch of people that avoid these arguments and a small number that say nobody cares (your side) and a small number that says it's a real problem that should be fixed (my side) and no way to know what % is what...

and even then, for this game, how many people have to be noticing a problem? is it 51% (the slight majority) or is 25% enough (1 in 4) what about 10%? 5%? what % of players must run into this before you think it is worth talking about with out things like "Sucks to be you"?

now the funny part is that some % of people on your side (the don't change it, it isn't broken) still use house rules or work arounds to stop the problem that they claim isn't a problem.

yup I do all that. I also take every chance here, on face book, on twitter (although rare I am on there), on tic tock on redit (on it more then twitter but still rarer then the others) and other message boards. I also have started to go back to Cons and LGS and as such talk there about it too.

then give me a better analogy... I will admit I went big to show how crazy the thought it "It didn't effect me so it doesn't need fixing"

The exact number/percentage that complain enough that sales go down instead of up. Thats up to WOTC to decide, not us.

I'd say the best analogy is looking at it from a causal users perspective against an avid users perspective. Out of the box, this works fine for most folks. Your problem is never going to effect them. After 4E, WOTC stopped catering specifically to avid users. You need to prove that this issue is a big issue. Internet sites and what your friend's say aside, the only numbers that matter on the ones that matter to WOTC.

 

[Scribe]

Personally I don't know what kind of super-secret spreadsheet the design team has. My very limited experience is that balance isn't great but it more or less works.

If there is one, the parameters for the balance point are so loose, and forgiving, it largely doesn't matter.

 

[Parmandur]

then give me a better analogy... I will admit I went big to show how crazy the thought it "It didn't effect me so it doesn't need fixing"

Nota bena, this is all very tongue in cheek, please read it as playful becauae that's how I mean it:

"How come my Pinto only starts if I fill it with gas?"

"My mouse doesn't move the cursor in Windows 95 if I don't plug it in."

"I haven't spoken to my wife in years, and then she left me for some reason. "

"When I throw Molitov cocktails at this space heater, it seems to catch fire."