D&D 5E Is 5E Special

[Ruin Explorer]

They solved it with math: all Spells have a strict HP damage value,so a Champion is in balance with a Transmuter as far as game balance goes.

This is obviously not true outside of combat. You can't say "game balance" and then just talk about combat. That's combat balance - and 5E is pretty good about that - almost as good as 4E. It's outside of combat you see real problems, and it's just a silly fantasy to argue that a Champion is balanced with a Full Caster of the same level (certainly above about level 7) outside of combat.

 

[Imaro]

I don't agree at all, in fact I think this point illustrates a fundamental misunderstanding of the issue on your part.

"Choosing magic" isn't a solution, especially when Eldritch Knights, for example, aren't even performing as well as say, Battlemasters on the LFQW front.

More importantly, that's like saying "If you don't like blue cars, well, you always have the option to spray-paint your red car blue!".

How are you determining that they don't perform (for whatever definition of perform you are using) as well as Battlemasters?

 

[Imaro]

They solved it with math: all Spells have a strict HP damage value,so a Champion is in balance with a Transmuter as far as game balance goes.

Not agreeing or disagreeing here, just stating that every class has access to magic, so IMO if you feel magic is overpowered or has advantages that can't be matched by non-casters... well then take some magic.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

How are you determining that they don't perform (for whatever definition of perform you are using) as well as Battlemasters?

What analysis do you want? Certainly they're inferior to BMs in combat performance, that's been well-established both by DPR/theorycrafting and actual, at-the-table demonstrations. And they don't have any magic that gives them a significant leg up on LFQW out-of-combat, because they're just extremely low-level Wizards with a limited spell selection and a very low casting stat.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

Not agreeing or disagreeing here, just stating that every class has access to magic, so IMO if you feel magic is overpowered or has advantages that can't be matched by non-casters... well then take some magic.

No.

That's like saying "If you don't like the colour blue, just spray-paint stuff blue because it's better!". That's absolutely failing to understand the issue completely and utterly.

 

[Imaro]

What analysis do you want? Certainly they're inferior to BMs in combat performance, that's been well-established both by DPR/theorycrafting and actual, at-the-table demonstrations. And they don't have any magic that gives them a significant leg up on LFQW out-of-combat, because they're just extremely low-level Wizards with a limited spell selection.

Sure let's start with the damage analysis... do you have a link?

 

[Imaro]

No.

That's like saying "If you don't like the colour blue, just spray-paint stuff blue because it's better!". That's absolutely failing to understand the issue completely and utterly.

It's like saying if you don't like the colour blue... pick a different colour.

 

[Oofta]

No.

That's like saying "If you don't like the colour blue, just spray-paint stuff blue because it's better!". That's absolutely failing to understand the issue completely and utterly.

Or ... you happen to like the color blue and I prefer green. I think fighters work fine. Both my home games have one and the player's are having fun. According to the best statistics we have for the broader public with DDB statistics, fighters are quite popular.

You can't please everyone, if you try you frequently please no one.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

Sure let's start with the damage analysis... do you have a link?

I haven't got recent figures because EKs are so far behind they don't tend to get included in analyses, but here's some discussion:

It's like saying if you don't like the colour blue... pick a different colour.

Now you're proving my point. You're saying "If people don't like magic being dominant and want to play a strong non-magical class, they should pick magic!". It's just totally silly.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

It's like saying if you don't like the colour blue... pick a different colour.

I rather see it as: if you don't like a red car, just don't buy a red car. But don't go and tell Ferrari, that they should colour all of them blue, just because you like it better that way. Of course you can politely ask, but not demand it. There might be a lot of people who don't want theor Ferrari blue (or worse: have all their already bought Ferraris painted blue on the next inspection*).

Maybe a better solution is just painting it blue yourself (which you might not want to) or an even better solution: just buy a different high class car that is blue to begin with.

*which is comparable to what wizards did in the 4e era when they tried to enforce the GSL over OSL.
Edit: and in a slightly less oppressive way with fading out 4e when they shut down the online tools (the only way to really make use of all the 4e stuff (8k feats I look at you).