Pathfinder 2E How is Pathfinder doing?

[Parmandur]

I mean, the Sagamore Ballroom was divided this year (with a third of it going to 40K lasertag). So what you're seeing is a fraction of the interest from GenCons at least 5 years ago.
The lines at the Paizo booth used to stretch out of the Vendor Hall, and now the shopping line would evaporate within an hour of the floor's opening each morning. It was disheartening to see stacks of Dark Archive sitting there on Sunday after seeing Free League and Zweihander selling out of entire product ranges. [And yes, I know smaller companies bring fewer copies and might sell out quicker, but presumably they also have less promotion, less interest, fewer fans, etc - so it should be comparable.]
I'm not bringing this up to disparage Paizo, Pathfinder 2, or its many fans. As I've started numerous times, I like the system overall. But I think that when people say "it's going as strong as ever" and then I see the event space one-third the size of the last time I went - that tells me that "in practice" there are some issues.
As fans, should we promote it more? Do they need more PFS GMs at events?

Convention space and attendance doesn't necessarily say much, especially during a pandemic. Most people don't go to Conventions at all.

 

[Parmandur]

I feel like you're desperate to create a problem where there is none on the basis of your vibes alone.

On the other hand, some seem to get extremely defensive and hostile when a PF2E fan expresses concerns.

 

[Justice and Rule]

On the other hand, some seem to get extremely defensive and hostile when a PF2E fan expresses concerns.

Having had this "IS PATHFINDER FAILING?!" conversation multiple times this year without any actual developments that would substantially change our view of the situation, it's rather frustrating to have to go over it again and again and again. But I think you're new to the side of the forum, so you probably haven't had to deal with it before.

Again, had the same frustration with people doing something similar back in 2014-2015 with 5E, always with the "Look, the size of the D&D division is tiny now and they are releasing fewer and fewer books compared to before".

 

[Thomas Shey]

Yeah, I've talked to Retreater enough to think he isn't doing this deliberately, but there's been a notable tendency among some PF1e and 5e fans to be very--attached--to the idea that PF2e is failing.

 

[Retreater]

Yeah, I've talked to Retreater enough to think he isn't doing this deliberately, but there's been a notable tendency among some PF1e and 5e fans to be very--attached--to the idea that PF2e is failing.

Thanks for giving me the benefit of the doubt.
If anything, I'm frustrated that I'm failing at PF2. I've been trying to find a sign that there's a widespread disconnect with the audience, that most players would simply prefer 5e. But when it comes down to it, I just can't run the system as the designers intend. It doesn't matter if I've been running games for 30 years. It doesn't matter how well I know the rules or prepare the sessions. It doesn't matter if I want it to work.
And all around me, all I can see is failure. Mounds of unsold books at my local game store, quiet official forums, decreased participation at conventions, no shows at my PFS events, players rage quitting from the campaigns I've run.

 

[Staffan]

I think some Paizo folks have talked about this, maybe even James Jacobs, about saving Severe/Extreme for boss end cap fights. Moving into more Moderate and Low encounters in the APs in general going forward.

I'll also note that there's a big difference between severe encounters that have multiple opponents, and where the strongest one is on-level or maybe +1, and ones that have +3 single bosses. The earlier ones are still tough, but they're tough in a way where you can feel you're making progress. Your attacks and Demoralizes are hitting, they're failing at least some of their saves, and they don't have a greater chance of critting you than missing.

It's the same thing I talked about earlier about PF2's "tall" boss design vs 4e-style solos, except instead of a solo monster you have a whole bunch of regular ones.

 

[Staffan]

Age of Ashes is tough in spots, but its not a constant run of +3 encounters. That's in a whole different class.

I think the second part has a fairly high proportion of tough encounters. But that's because it's a hexcrawl where you're likely to only have one or maybe two encounters per day, so you can let loose a bit more. You don't have a 10+ room dungeon to deal with, just this one fight.

 

[Justice and Rule]

I think the second part has a fairly high proportion of tough encounters. But that's because it's a hexcrawl where you're likely to only have one or maybe two encounters per day, so you can let loose a bit more. You don't have a 10+ room dungeon to deal with, just this one fight.

 

[John R Davis]

I can only go on what I know.
None of the 15 or so people in my area who play PF1 a lot, have moved to PF2. Most have tried it but more importantly none have spent any money on it.

 

[dirtypool]

Retreater:

And all around me, all I can see is failure. Mounds of unsold books at my local game store, quiet official forums, decreased participation at conventions, no shows at my PFS events, players rage quitting from the campaigns I've run.

Those are all anecdotal pieces of information, and almost all of them personal anecdotes about your LGS, your PFS chapter, your campaigns. The other is just guesswork on your part