Thanks
@FrozenNorth for a more concrete example!
Here’s an example from my last game. The players need to bargain with a marid to undo a terrible mistake they made. All they know is that they have been directed to a treasure chamber with dripping urn covered in runes.
Naturally, first priority is to interpret the runes. Arcana check. On a success, they learn they have to draw a summoning circle, but also that the ritual summons the marid and they will have to bargain with it. Failure gets them instructions on how to summon it, but they misinterpret and believe that it will serve them.
Drawing the circle is a Dex check. They can add proficiency if they are trained in Calligraphy or Forger’s Tools.
Once the marid has been summoned, the Skill challenge proper begins. The party has two rounds to make their case (so 10 checks total)
The following skills approaches will work:
- Finding out more about the marid (Perception or Insight). This doesn’t count as a success, but I will give information about other skills that might be useful;
- Marids are extremely proud creatures. During the meeting, you need to offer this one a gift of at least 15 000 gp;
- Flatter the marid by appealing to the marid’s distinguished lineage (History or Arcana);
- Appeals to the bargain between geniekin and humsns (Religion)
- Appeal to the marid’s sympathy (Persuasion, only available if the marid has been flattered first);
- Draw upon knowledge of the sea or mariner’s legends of marids (Nature or Sailor background).
5 or less successes: the marid will grant the wish in exchange for a heavy price. Until the price is paid, the marid can take over any of the characters to get them to do what he wants.
6 to 8: the marid will grant the wish for a heavy price. The party has a fixed delay to complete the price or the wish will be undone.
9 successes: the marid will grant the wish in exchange for an unspecified service at a future date.
Ok, everything you describe here basically isn't any different from how most non-combat encounters are run IME, the only difference is this appears "pre-structured" before-hand as where my encounters I do it on the fly.
I'll repeat the same scenario as I would run it:
1. Arcana check about the runes is logical enough. The failure you outline is a version of "success at a cost" IMO.
2. DEX check to draw the circle. Again, that would be the next step, applying any proficiency that is appropriate to a steady hand, including cartography and even Sleight of Hand, in addition to those you outlined. Failure is again "success at a cost". Perhaps that failure means the marid is not confined to the circle and might choose to attack if the later actions make it angry?
3. I would also have an Arcana check before-hand to see what (if anything) the PCs know about marids.
4. DEX (Arcana) or a spellcasting ability check to perform the summons. Failure might take the PCs to the marid, instead.
5. Once the marid is summoned, then Insight to gauge its reaction to being summoned. This could easily help the PCs determine if flattery, intimidation, or whatever might be the best approach. Failure would mean they will probably try the wrong approach.
And so forth...
Ultimately, this wouldn't be counting successes or failures, but how each approach/result changes the encounter's dynamics. Also, some of the "checks" wouldn't even be required if the players handle it themselves (such as judging the marid's reaction according to how I portray it).
A big difference between 5e skill resolution and a skill challenge is that everyone in a 4e skill challenge takes a turn and declares an action for each round of the skill challenge while in 5e it is generally one PC declaring an action and getting a resolution.
The skill challenge focuses the group on "the group is doing X now, how are you participating?" which is a different focus from "I try to do x, what happens?"
IMO a DM should be asking every player what they are doing in the situation, because even a PC who isn't actively participating in a social encounter might (in the background) affect it.
Sometimes it is just a single PC ("face") doing the talking, but the others aren't just statues so should be telling me what they are doing. Another PC might just be "smiling reassuringly" or "staring with crossed arms" depending on if the face is trying to get help or intimidate, for example.
Anyway, I appreciate all of the information on it. Other than "structure" and "counting successes/failures" I don't really see how, narratively, this is very different from running any normal non-combat encounter.
FWIW, I do the same structure for exploration challenges (scouting, searching an area, etc.). Every one is doing
something, even if not directly involved with the task at hand. And, as I said, sometimes what is going on in the background or elsewhere can move the story along just as much.
