Worlds of Design: The Great Divide

Is an RPG about vicarious adventure or about something else?
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Adventure is worthwhile in itself - Amelia Earhart
Life is either a daring adventure, or nothing - Helen Keller

Don’t read any science fiction/fantasy from before [or after] 1980” is a phrase characterizing a notable split in sci-fi and fantasy fandom. There's a split for sure, but they're not nearly as incompatible as that quote might imply.

Vicarious vs. Role​

For the purpose of this discussion, I define vicarious as “experienced in the imagination through the feelings or actions of another person,” in this case, the player’s character(s). (See my article “The Vicarious Participator,” in Dragon magazine #74) As I said in that article, a vicarious approach to role-playing puts the player...

…into a situation one could never experience in the real world, and to react as the player would like to think he would react in similar circumstances. In other words, the game lets me do the things I'd like to think I would do if I were a wizard, or if I were a fighter, or perhaps, even, if I decided to take the evil path.

The opposite of vicarious participation is playing a role, as an actor would. In other words, the character is NOT you any more than Chris Evans was Captain America or Meryl Streep was Margaret Thatcher. This is immersive role-playing, and it is as much taking on a role as it is a shift in mindset where you are not “you” but “in someone else’s shoes.”

A Fictional Trend?​

In my opinion, vicarious participation is now less common in fiction, as the reader is more often deeply immersed in the character’s viewpoint. Not just the “fun parts,” but all the mundanity of day-to-day life that a “real person” would engage with, even if they’re not particularly exciting. There are a lot of reasons for this that go beyond simply preference.

Fiction that focused on adventures tended to be short, with novels much smaller before the 80s than they are today. There’s a reason for this beyond simply preference. In earlier times there were more standalone novels, fewer series, many fewer designed trilogies (which amount to extended single novels). Older novels were often serialized first in monthly science fiction magazines of the pulp days such as “Planet Stories,” “Astounding,” and “Amazing Stories.” Pulps were the successors to the penny dreadfuls, dime novels, and short-fiction magazines of the 19th century.” Virtually all gone now.

To be clear, there are contemporary science fiction and fantasy novels that are primarily adventure; but a great many more (going along with the trend in novels generally) aren’t so much adventures as “existence,” filled with details of life, often at considerable length. More realistic? Perhaps. But as someone who favors adventure, I find this kind of work largely tedious. (If there aren’t any swords, explosions, or magic spells in a movie, I’m unlikely to watch it. Not much different for novels.)

The Witch World series is an example of what I consider to be vicarious adventures. Yes, there’s a kind of love story, or even two, but almost all of it is Adventure with a capital "A". The books are short and to the point, well under the average novel length of 90,000-100,000 words. (50,000 is commonly regarded as the minimum novel length.)

All that said, as much as the quote about the 1980s being a turning point may ring true, there is precedent for both approaches in fiction. Well before the 80s, some people stopped reading The Lord of the Rings because the first book started slowly, perhaps because there’s not much adventure at the beginning.

Vicarious Heroism vs. Immersion​

This approach – focusing on immersive role-play vs. focusing on vicarious adventuring – has serious implications for how a role-playing game plays out at the table.

Immersive games rely much more on backstory development; characters come into campaigns fully formed, with a rich tapestry for a game master to draw on for narrative conflict. The more characters with these sorts of backstories, the more complicated these threads become. There is, pointedly, a “what my character would do” approach to this, where players can separate (or the GM can forcibly do so) what a player would do vs. what a character would do, depending on how events play out. It’s a fairly strong divide between the player controlling their character and the character living in the world, which tends to dig into the minutiae that we find more common in world-building novels.

Conversely, vicarious heroism tends to be focused on the adventure. Not surprisingly, like the pulps of old, these games tend to be one-shots or short-on-time games where heroes (or villains!) want to blow stuff up and “get to the good stuff.” There isn’t nearly as much dialogue about what a character would do as there is about the player deciding their character's actions (with little regard as to what their character “might think”), and then dealing with the consequences.

Both of these styles of play can be very entertaining, but they aren’t always compatible. The player who has a character deeply bonded to their mount may worry about leaving it behind, while the player who just wants to kill stuff ties it to a pole outside the dungeon and hopes for the best. In an ideal game, the game master has a discussion with the players to determine which style will work for the table and adjusts accordingly. But more likely, players don’t even know what style they like until they’re playing, and most tables end up with a mix of both.

Generally speaking, external constraints like time, player attendance, and the game master’s preferences will all determine just how immersive or vicarious players can be. My guess is that the longer a campaign is, the more likely it will lean toward story rather than toward action adventure, just because there’s more time and cognitive room to explore the fictional world. But there can be many, many exceptions in the full spectra of what the GM wants to play, what the players want to play, and how they play together. The key is figuring out what works for your group.

Your turn: Does your group consist of players who prefer vicarious adventure, deep immersion, or somewhere in-between?
 

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Lewis Pulsipher

Lewis Pulsipher

Dragon, White Dwarf, Fiend Folio
You make a good point which is that horror, by necessity, requires immersion. I've learned this the hard way that you can't "fake" immersion with a group resistant to it. They just get frustrated.

In my action horror campaign, my brother was the only player who actually played being afraid (and would naturally run away, scream in terror, try to avoid conflict). Everyone else wanted to fight every monster with as much firepower as possible, and only if I mechanically imposed fear/disadvantages did their characters act as if anything was truly terrifying.

To put it another way, the characters were supposed to be scared, but the players weren't, so it was a constant tension between the "horror" setting pushing fear/terror on he characters, and the players rolling their eyes as they keep shooting at the Lovecraftian monstrosity but now with a penalty.

Everyone buying into the immersion of horror is key, in my opinion, to a long-term campaign like this.

The reason we don't do much combat is because we are also war gamers. We play 'true' war game and do campaigns with progression points. When we play RPGs, we are in it for the immersion and the story. We don't like mixing the two types of games - which is why we stay away from D&D and more tactical RPGs like GURPS.
 

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My group are all pretty Old School with our first experiences in rpging being either AD&D/BX & in one case MERP! Followed by Call of Cthulhu... Half war game as well. But we have all been impacted via immersion in rpgs, whether it be I6 Ravenloft, WW's WoD, L5R 1e or Masks of Nyarlathotep....
Thus some in our group focus on winning/ vicarious Adventure/ what's exciting / not dying etc..... Loot, xp, ability improvement! Etc (though all of us like these)... but some of us (2/5), like more emphasis on character, background, playing them in terms of what is their motivation, how would they respond.... If I run a game, only 1 player will do their backstory (as usual). Which is a key indicator i think of being pro Immersion on the Vicarious/ Immersion axis.

Interesting article thanks!
 

Recent example from my campaign: I had monsters that if you attacked them would cause your valuables to burst into flames. Each PC who fought the monsters rolled and saved, but had no valuables (monks amirite?), so nothing happened. PLAYER of hexblade character knew this was the consequence and had a lot of gold on his person, but declared "my character doesn't know that this will happen" and attacked anyway and suffered the consequences as he took 6d6+ fire damage.
  • VICARIOUS: PLAYER only acts on what they know, what makes sense for them, etc. "Hell no, I'm not attacking that monster that damages valuables and causes burning damage, I saw that failed save and what might happen, I'm not gonna do that!"
  • IMMERSION: CHARACTER only acts on what they know, what makes sense for them, etc. "I'd normally attack a monster and since my character hasn't seen the consequences of attacking while carrying enormous amounts of gold, I'm going to still attack even though it may harm my character because he wouldn't know that."
It's tangled up in how the rules are presented (on Roll20, it tends to reveal consequences if the save is failed, but in-person DMs can conceal better but even so you can figure out something bad might happen if PCs who attack are asked to make saves). Vicarious play can be "play to win."

I still need caffeine too, but hopefully that helps?
Im actually a little more confused as the terms to me seemed like first person exploration vs third person exploration of the experience. The novel descriptions seemed to lead out of a single or main character point of view and into a more dramatic overview of all characters involved. This additional info seems to be framing around metagaming. While all of these things (to me) are different, they have similarities.

As best I can re-frame it;
Episodic vs serial?
I think you can roll out all the usual suspects here in linear/sandbox styles of games. Either West Marching or plot based campaign games. The episodic, is a shorter more focused experience where the implications of the actions and their consequences are not revealed, if ever. Serial is a continuation in a larger scope where every session is connected and working towards a cohesive whole. Pros of episodic is that the experience can change with whatever whim the players have at the moment. Con obviously, is nothing is explored too deeply or expanded on.

First person vs third person?
How does one want to experience the immersion of the game? Do I imagine myself as an astronaut doing a space walk? Am I looking to see my PC as an avatar for my own imagination of doing a specific task such as that? Or am I using my PC as an anchor in a sea of moving parts that make up an ever evolving space opera story in its entirety? Both 1st and 3rd here are the vehicle for imagination in what draws people to play an RPG.

Metagaming?
I think ones thoughts about metagaming will largely depend on answer of the previous items. In an old school skill play survival game, folks wont fret too much about metagaming as the point is to engage heavily the game. Likely doing so from a first person poking things with a stick, kicking in doors, and taking action. Where as, looking to immerse in the entire setting with dramatic beats is gonna require a certain acting accordingly despite meta game knowledge that might lead to more optimal actions.

My thoughts (if I have any of this correctly...)
Honestly, I think most gamers fall between the "divide". There are moments where each is more or less fitting. The real challenge is the group dynamic becasue each individual is going to be more or less leaning into these aspects. Myself, for example, has learned I am much more of a serial third person kind of RPGer and have had to become more accommodating of somebody who prefers episodic first person play. At least if im going to make a game work with that person. There is a point too far for us to enjoy the game together. I wont really know until I do though. As much as I wish most folks I engaged the game with thought of it this deeply, many do not.
 

My thoughts (if I have any of this correctly...)
Honestly, I think most gamers fall between the "divide". There are moments where each is more or less fitting. The real challenge is the group dynamic becasue each individual is going to be more or less leaning into these aspects. Myself, for example, has learned I am much more of a serial third person kind of RPGer and have had to become more accommodating of somebody who prefers episodic first person play. At least if im going to make a game work with that person. There is a point too far for us to enjoy the game together. I wont really know until I do though. As much as I wish most folks I engaged the game with thought of it this deeply, many do not.
Agreed. I do think the aforementioned test of "player knows about potential harm, character doesn't" pretty quickly shows where players are on the spectrum.
 

Agreed. I do think the aforementioned test of "player knows about potential harm, character doesn't" pretty quickly shows where players are on the spectrum.
Absolutely, especially when it's "jumps on grenade not knowing whether you're going to survive".
 

Absolutely, especially when it's "jumps on grenade not knowing whether you're going to survive".
That reminds me of one session I had. Most of the party was on the roof of a keep about 40 ft tall. They were engaged in a battle when another member of the party was on the ground at the door of the keep being attacked. So, suddenly there was an urgent need to get down there and help. One player just says, "40ft wont kill my character so they will just swan dive to the gobble stone and then help the other PC fight..." As I mentioned, im not a huge anti-metagamer but stuff like this does bother me.
 

That reminds me of one session I had. Most of the party was on the roof of a keep about 40 ft tall. They were engaged in a battle when another member of the party was on the ground at the door of the keep being attacked. So, suddenly there was an urgent need to get down there and help. One player just says, "40ft wont kill my character so they will just swan dive to the gobble stone and then help the other PC fight..." As I mentioned, im not a huge anti-metagamer but stuff like this does bother me.
Yeah falling in D&D can be really problematic. Jumping down 40' might feel heroic and could be described well to make it feel cool, but too far and it starts getting silly: A 200' fall damage of 20D6 seems like a lot of damage but it's average is only 70. My current PC, a 9th level Warlock with a 14 Con and 66 HP without any of the usual amount of THP that's going around, has about a 25% chance of not even going down from that!
 

Yeah falling in D&D can be really problematic. Jumping down 40' might feel heroic and could be described well to make it feel cool, but too far and it starts getting silly: A 200' fall damage of 20D6 seems like a lot of damage but it's average is only 70. My current PC, a 9th level Warlock with a 14 Con and 66 HP without any of the usual amount of THP that's going around, has about a 25% chance of not even going down from that!
Right, if the player had described it like heroically or action film like, id been more cool with it. Though, it was more like, "how much? 4D6 damage? Yeah, ill just swan dive down there because its faster" That im not so cool with.
 

Right, if the player had described it like heroically or action film like, id been more cool with it. Though, it was more like, "how much? 4D6 damage? Yeah, ill just swan dive down there because its faster" That im not so cool with.
And for me it's not the damage, it's the in-game way characters react to it. If a player is willing to role-play his character as being afraid of falling off a roof, that's fine with me if the damage isn't that bad. Conversely, I had a NPC end himself by stepping off a balcony 30 feet up and the players were like "uh...he's weaksauce if he died from that fall." They weren't wrong. I came up with "well it's a crit because he's intentionally harming himself" (so 6D6 bludgeoning, still not THAT bad for a mid-level NPC) but fact is rules can influence gameplay whether we like it or not. As DM I chose to ignore them for dramatic effect.
 

And for me it's not the damage, it's the in-game way characters react to it. If a player is willing to role-play his character as being afraid of falling off a roof, that's fine with me if the damage isn't that bad. Conversely, I had a NPC end himself by stepping off a balcony 30 feet up and the players were like "uh...he's weaksauce if he died from that fall." They weren't wrong. I came up with "well it's a crit because he's intentionally harming himself" (so 6D6 bludgeoning, still not THAT bad for a mid-level NPC) but fact is rules can influence gameplay whether we like it or not. As DM I chose to ignore them for dramatic effect.
There was an article many years ago by Dave Noonan called "Proud Nails" talking about aspects of the system that kind of stick out. He had some nice examples, such as the size of horses leading to a riding party taking up something like 50'. I think falling damage in D&D has been one of those all the way back to the beginning.
 

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