D&D (2024) OneD&D Character Origins summary

[Remathilis]

So what is WoTC's excuse for nerfing the Dragonborn's Breath Weapon back to the PHB version? curious

It's not quite.

PHB: When you use your breath weapon, each creature in the area of the exhalation must make a saving throw, the type of which is determined by your draconic ancestry. The DC for this saving throw equals 8 + your Constitution modifier + your proficiency bonus. A creature takes 2d6 damage on a failed save, and half as much damage on a successful one. The damage increases to 3d6 at 6th level, 4d6 at 11th level, and 5d6 at 16th level.

Fizban: When you take the Attack action on your turn, you can replace one of your attacks with an exhalation of magical energy in a 30-foot line that is 5 feet wide. Each creature in that area must make a Dexterity saving throw (DC = 8 + your Constitution modifier + your proficiency bonus). On a failed save, the creature takes 1d10 damage of the type associated with your Chromatic Ancestry. On a successful save, it takes half as much damage. This damage increases by 1d10 when you reach 5th level (2d10), 11th level (3d10), and 17th level (4d10).

UA: As an Action, you exhaledestructive energy in a 15-foot cone. Each creature in that area must make a Dexterity saving throw against a DC equal to 8 + your Constitution modifier + your Proficiency Bonus. On a failed save, a creature takes 1d10 + yourcharacter level in damage of the type determined by your Draconic Ancestry trait. On a successful save, a creature takes half as much damage.

Assuming averages, at first level, a dragonborn does 7 points (PH), 5.5 points (Fizban), or 6.5 points (UA). At 5th, this increases to 10.5 (PH), 11 (Fiz), and 10.5 (UA). At 11th, 14 (PH), 16.5 (Fiz), and 16.5 (UA) and at 17th, 17.5 (PH), 22 (Fiz), and 22.5 (UA).

Of course, averages only say so much. If you go by Max, Fizban looks better at 17th: 30 (PH), 40 (Fiz), 27 (UA) but a far more interesting thing is happening: minimum damage. Again at 17th: 5 (PH), 4 (Fiz), 18 (UA). The floor is significantly higher due to the static level bonus.

Another thing to look at: UA's breath weapon improves with every level, not just the checkpoint levels. Compare a 16th level dragonborn who is still doing 14 or 16.5 to a UA who is doing 21.5 and you'll see UA pulls ahead for a while before the other db's get a chance to catch-up.

The only net loss is replacing an attack with a breath, which does lower DPS overall. But you trade that for more reliable floor damage at a slight loss of top end.

EDIT: the shape also matters. PH breath shape is determined by type, Fizban is a 30' line (good for stacks or avoiding allies, but rarely hits multiple targets) while UA is a 15' cone, which is easier to aim at multiple adjacent foes at the cost of friendly fire. That being said, it's easier to hit multiple targets with burning hands than with lightning bolt, so that is something else to consider.

You also get darkvision (something they always should have had) and free draconic language to make up for the lost chromatic/metallic/gem traits. Not great, but far better than 2014.

So I don't think the dragonborn is as bad as it appears. Maybe even a little better?

 

[Corinnguard]

It's not quite.

PHB: When you use your breath weapon, each creature in the area of the exhalation must make a saving throw, the type of which is determined by your draconic ancestry. The DC for this saving throw equals 8 + your Constitution modifier + your proficiency bonus. A creature takes 2d6 damage on a failed save, and half as much damage on a successful one. The damage increases to 3d6 at 6th level, 4d6 at 11th level, and 5d6 at 16th level.

Fizban: When you take the Attack action on your turn, you can replace one of your attacks with an exhalation of magical energy in a 30-foot line that is 5 feet wide. Each creature in that area must make a Dexterity saving throw (DC = 8 + your Constitution modifier + your proficiency bonus). On a failed save, the creature takes 1d10 damage of the type associated with your Chromatic Ancestry. On a successful save, it takes half as much damage. This damage increases by 1d10 when you reach 5th level (2d10), 11th level (3d10), and 17th level (4d10).

UA: As an Action, you exhaledestructive energy in a 15-foot cone. Each creature in that area must make a Dexterity saving throw against a DC equal to 8 + your Constitution modifier + your Proficiency Bonus. On a failed save, a creature takes 1d10 + yourcharacter level in damage of the type determined by your Draconic Ancestry trait. On a successful save, a creature takes half as much damage.

Assuming averages, at first level, a dragonborn does 7 points (PH), 5.5 points (Fizban), or 6.5 points (UA). At 5th, this increases to 10.5 (PH), 11 (Fiz), and 10.5 (UA). At 11th, 14 (PH), 16.5 (Fiz), and 16.5 (UA) and at 17th, 17.5 (PH), 22 (Fiz), and 22.5 (UA).

Of course, averages only say so much. If you go by Max, Fizban looks better at 17th: 30 (PH), 40 (Fiz), 27 (UA) but a far more interesting thing is happening: minimum damage. Again at 17th: 5 (PH), 4 (Fiz), 18 (UA). The floor is significantly higher due to the static level bonus.

Another thing to look at: UA's breath weapon improves with every level, not just the checkpoint levels. Compare a 16th level dragonborn who is still doing 14 or 16.5 to a UA who is doing 21.5 and you'll see UA pulls ahead for a while before the other db's get a chance to catch-up.

The only net loss is replacing an attack with a breath, which does lower DPS overall. But you trade that for more reliable floor damage at a slight loss of top end.

EDIT: the shape also matters. PH breath shape is determined by type, Fizban is a 30' line (good for stacks or avoiding allies, but rarely hits multiple targets) while UA is a 15' cone, which is easier to aim at multiple adjacent foes at the cost of friendly fire. That being said, it's easier to hit multiple targets with burning hands than with lightning bolt, so that is something else to consider.

You also get darkvision (something they always should have had) and free draconic language to make up for the lost chromatic/metallic/gem traits. Not great, but far better than 2014.

So I don't think the dragonborn is as bad as it appears. Maybe even a little better?

I am not sure. One thing that I liked about the UA version and the Fizban version was how WoTC tied the number of times a Dragonborn could use their breath weapon to their proficiency. Something I should have considered when I made my first Dragonborn character using the PHB version. I had to go looking around for a racial feat to get more uses out of my character's breath weapon attack. Both the UA and Fizban version would have meant my character got an ASI instead of a feat.

That said, I think it would be neat if a person playing a Dragonborn could switch between a line area-of-effect or a cone area-of-effect when the need arises.

 

[Remathilis]

I am not sure. One thing that I liked about the UA version and the Fizban version was how WoTC tied the number of times a Dragonborn could use their breath weapon to their proficiency. Something I should have considered when I made my first Dragonborn character using the PHB version. I had to go looking around for a racial feat to get more uses out of my character's breath weapon attack. Both the UA and Fizban version would have meant my character got an ASI instead of a feat.

That said, I think it would be neat if a person playing a Dragonborn could switch between a line area-of-effect or a cone area-of-effect when the need arises.

I didn't get into short rests vs prof/day as that only concerns the 2014 version (already the weakest) and isn't relevant to a single combat unless you're going Nova in one battle. Both Fizban and UA use prof/day.

But yes, the newer db have more uses per day as it grows in strength.

 

[Baldurs_Underdark]

The way that critical hits only affect weapon damage for PCs (not spells) is really strange. It is the only thing here that I really dont like.

Everybody is going to House Rule that crits also work for spells, or at least cantrips... so they might as well change that immediately.

 

[Seramus]

There is nothing WotC can do to stop an irritating DM. Annoying DMs and going to annoy regardless of the rules. WotC cannot make all their design decisions around trying to stop those people.

Totally true! But lots of DMs stick with the rules as written even when those rules are sometimes annoying. Especially the ones in AL who have less of a choice in the matter.

 

[Aldarc]

Everybody is going to House Rule that crits also work for spells, or at least cantrips... so they might as well change that immediately.

Not sure. I kinda like that spells can't crit as that makes martial weapon users more competitive as damage dealers.

 

[Baldurs_Underdark]

Not sure. I kinda like that spells can't crit as that makes martial weapon users more competitive as damage dealers.

But then just turn all damage cantrips into saves for the targets, like Sacred Flame. It sucks to roll a 20 and get nothing special. Anticlimax.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

You also get darkvision (something they always should have had) and free draconic language to make up for the lost chromatic/metallic/gem traits. Not great, but far better than 2014.

...dragonborn have always had free draconic. Fizban's options just gave you the ability to choose some language other than draconic if you wanted it.

So literally this new thing is a nerf relative to the dragon breath of Fizban's or UA (by your own admission), a nerf relative to all the other new traits in either source, and either no difference or a nerf relative to languages. The one and only improvement is getting darkvision.

This is not acceptable.

 

[Remathilis]

...dragonborn have always had free draconic. Fizban's options just gave you the ability to choose some language other than draconic if you wanted it.

So literally this new thing is a nerf relative to the dragon breath of Fizban's or UA (by your own admission), a nerf relative to all the other new traits in either source, and either no difference or a nerf relative to languages. The one and only improvement is getting darkvision.

This is not acceptable.

Draconic is in addition to the free language you get AND your background language. So, while many races get three languages, dragonborn get four.

As for rest, I wager you didn't actually read how while top end damage (as in, all rolls maxed) is slower, your low end damage (all rolls min) is way better. Seriously, which is better 1d10+15 or 3d10? I think I like my odds of rolling 25 over my odds of rolling 30...

 

[EzekielRaiden]

Draconic is in addition to the free language you get AND your background language. So, while many races get three languages, dragonborn get four.

As for rest, I wager you didn't actually read how while top end damage (as in, all rolls maxed) is slower, your low end damage (all rolls min) is way better. Seriously, which is better 1d10+15 or 3d10? I think I like my odds of rolling 25 over my odds of rolling 30...

Where are you getting this fourth language...? I don't see it. Everyone gets Common. Dragonborn get Draconic. Background gives a language. That's three. Where is the fourth?

Edit: Somehow I thought "UA" meant the pre-Fizban, not the current playtest, so that's why I was confused. Yes, the breath is slightly better for average output. But you cannot tell me a few points of average damage are better than, y'know, having actual racial features and not just garbage.