D&D (2024) First playtest thread! One D&D Character Origins.

[doctorbadwolf]

Essentials made zero rules changes, so I'm gonna have to say that's an incorrect guess.

This is false. The Essentials books presented widely updated rules representing the biggest round of rules updates up to that point.

 

[Bill Zebub]

While it may not have been explicitly stated, it was at least strongly implied in D&D up to 3.5E that PCs may be exceptional examples but were otherwise typical for their respective races. Statistically speaking, they were above average compared to the mean, but were still on the same bell curve.

First, we're talking about 5e (well, really 5.5e) not other editions.

Second, wtf does "exceptional but otherwise typical" even mean?

Third, assuming there is an answer to #2, you cannot logically just jump to a specific statistical interpretation. Even if the language just said "PCs are above average" it could mean they further out on the same curve but it could also mean that they are on their own curve.

 

[Haplo781]

This is false. The Essentials books presented widely updated rules representing the biggest round of rules updates up to that point.

Uh... I have played a lot of 4e. There were clarifications, and some tiny revisions to specific fiddly bits like "what does hover mean" or "how does variable resistance work" but nothing like adding new status conditions or changing character creation.

Unless you can cite specific examples I'm gonna have to call BS on this.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Uh... I have played a lot of 4e. There were clarifications, and some tiny revisions to specific fiddly bits like "what does hover mean" or "how does variable resistance work" but nothing like adding new status conditions or changing character creation.

Unless you can cite specific examples I'm gonna have to call BS on this.

You literally just admitted there were rules changes, my dude.

 

[Haplo781]

You literally just admitted there were rules changes, my dude.

Minor tweaks to glossary entries is not a "rules change," and at any rate this is goalpost shifting.

 

[edosan]

The bolded part is the biggest issue. I do not see even a mild implication to that effect. The sidebar literally is there to show that you don’t need to be reticent about mixing things from across 5e’s publication.

Maybe I am being optimistic, but it feels like increased market penetration means they can’t tell people to throw all their 5e books away to clear space for 5.whatever like they used to. We put up with that in the past but I don’t think the ranks of new players would.

 

[Chaosmancer]

I'm still 36 pages behind, but the sheer number of people I'm seeing who seem to think that "backwards compatible" must mean "exactly the same with no changes" is staggering.

Proficiency isn't changing
HD and HP aren't changing
Proficiency Bonus isn't changing
Saving throws aren't changing
Weapons and Armor aren't changing.

There is far more that is either staying the same or just getting small tweaks. Want me to list every single change to gnomes? Here we go. Speed increased to 30 ft. Gnomish language got moved to background/standard language choice. Forest Gnomes now get castings of Speak with animals rather than their innate trait. Rock Gnomes gained two cantrips instead of the lore feature, and their tinkering is now explicitily magical (leading me to wonder if Artificer goes Core. along with artificers getting mentioned in Arcane Magic). That's it. That's not "incompatible" with the 2014 version, its actually 95% the exact same.

 

[I'm A Banana]

I'm getting "5.5" vibes from this. Significant changes, but trying to keep old stuff usable.

Lukewarm takes of mine include:

• I personally like the new half-elf / half-orc / half-everything guidance. I do like that it exists in a game that already has mechanical meat for half-elves and half-orcs, if that's important to the player.
• I'm not a fan of Inspiration as a racial trait. I am on board the "Inspiration should be reliably expected" train. It is a cool mechanic and is really under-utilized. One element of Inspiration I like is that it is agnostic to your character choices - everyone has equal opportunity to get it (or not get it, which is more often the case). So I don't like it becoming an element of your "build."
• Ardlings are a mechanic in search of a story. Listen, it's fine to make a Planetouched race and say tieflings are one example of them who might have some dark history and aasimar are another example of them who have some light history. You don't need to reinvent that wheel. We don't need a new race for every subdivision of the planes (Did you miss the Zenythri? I mean, I did, but I'm a Weird Dude).
• I kind of want dwarven lineages and halfling lineages to be more than just proficiency differences and fluff. I'd rather that choice be meaningful rather than be removed. I know dwarves have a rep for being all the same, but the dwarfiest dwarf may be an isolated clan deep below the earth with the wisdom of ancient kingdoms OR a feral Scotsman, and that difference should be meaningful! For the same reason, the halfling-est halfling may be a sneaky adventurer or a cottagecore homemaker or a feral predator.
• I welcome the return of Life Span. It's such a good way to immediately consider "how old am I and how much have I seen?" I've missed you since Tasha's, you weird fantasy staple, you.
• Dragonborn seem a bit like rearranging furniture. Maybe it's worth it to give them darkvision and reshuffle their breath weapon, but I can't see a lot of value. I kind of like the "recharge on a short rest" thing that dragonborn have now, and I'd wager moving to Proficiency Bonus until Long Rest will mean that they're less inclined to use it as the encounters get closer to the climax.
• I like pre-made backgrounds. Please don't stop creating new, interesting, pre-made backgrounds!
• I miss the bonds / flaws / traits / ideals. I wonder if they just didn't include them in this UA or if they're thinking about retiring them as they refresh the way Inspiration works. I like these random charts! They are like tossing a coin: even if you don't like the result, it tells you more about who your character is.
• I kind of like the old feats better so far. Until we have a few more points of comparison, it's hard to tell what a 1st-level feat does that a 4th-level feat does not and vice versa, but overall I like the benefits for the older feats a little better than the newer ones. Old Alert had a bit of a broader application which meant that being "alert" had a bigger overall effect on your character. New Alert is very focused on "make your initiative roll better." OK, sure, but not being able to be surprised and being able to defend yourself against invisible creatures is more about "being alert" as a character trait, which I like better. "Good at initiative rolls" isn't about my character's story as much as it is about their mechanical performance. And you still have a big gap in power between something liker Alert and something like Crafter or something like Skilled or even Healer. There's still good feats and bad feats (that will never truly be chosen).

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Minor tweaks to glossary entries is not a "rules change," and at any rate this is goalpost shifting.

Hardly.

• Essentials is the origin of 4e races choosing between two stats for one of their stat boosts.
• Many feats, powers, and magic items, were changed
• Sneak attack changed to allow short bows
• Rapiers dropped down from superior, making them a more common weapon
• That’s just what I could find or remember off hand, and doesn’t get into the specifics of changes to specific options.

The Rules Compendium also contained altered rules for Skill Challenges, and I may be wrong but I think it was Essentials that changed how often Sneak Attack could be used, from once per round to once per turn.



You seem to be replying to me as if I’m making some other argument from anything I’ve said.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Maybe I am being optimistic, but it feels like increased market penetration means they can’t tell people to throw all their 5e books away to clear space for 5.whatever like they used to. We put up with that in the past but I don’t think the ranks of new players would.

I agree. The new core books will be a refinement of 5e that is friendlier to expansion.