D&D (2024) Bonus languages in One D&D backgrounds goes contrary to their other goals

[Charlaquin]

Then what's the problem?

I don’t think there is a problem.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Then from where should PCs get languages?

Races, classes and downtime. If (sample) backgrounds give languages in 2024, it should be only a few backgrounds, not all of them.

Backgrounds did give languages though.

5/13 did. The UA version is a dramatic boost to that.

They are saying no such thing. They are giving one example of a gladiator background which speaks orc. Your gladiator character might speak elvish instead. Backgrounds are entirely floating, they are just giving examples of possible combinations so people who just want to pick one and be done with it can do so.

Then they should just "say pick a language," which is what the 2014 backgrounds did.

The cultural and worldbuilding implications of the languages they're using aren't great.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Drop Druidic, replace with Sylvan. Make it a valid selection for bonus language.

I'd go further: Replace Druidic with Sylvan generally. Why do druids have a secret language at all?

 

[Smackpixi]

Also, even random languages that you, as DM, don’t think will matter, can surprisingly pop up as useful. Current campaign, one of my PCs had a sidekick that had taken a vow of silence due to a past crime, would not speak to anyone and only communicated by hand signals to his main Character. But was an Outlander background so had a bonus language. Since guy wouldn’t actually speak I didn’t think the bonus language was important, but I tossed out ideas mentioning “well, there will be dragons…”. “Oh, I wanna speak Dragon!” Ok Draconic it is…thinking useless as Dragons speak Common and never was there going to be a time spying on Dragons speaking to each other. But some Lizaardfolk too in the adventure, so maybe, whatever.

Flash forward 7 months and I’ve long forgotten about this and they’re on a side track where I’m frantically making up stuff off the top of my head with no plan as we go what they’re seeing in this bazaar and I drop there’s a mean guy with animals in tiny cages for sale, and one cage is empty, and they’re like what’s that? And mean guy says, “Faerie Dragon“. And they’re like I don’t see anything, he’s like, “trust me he’s in there, poke it”….

Anyway, long story short, RAW, Faerie Dragons don’t speak Common. But they do speak Draconic. So, this sidekick, who hasn’t spoken in the 7 months we’ve been playing suddenly starts speaking to FD and yadda yadda yadda…dead evil merchant and now sidekick has a sidekick and the PCs sidekick has a major personality transformation after meeting what’s become his “service” Faerie Dragon.

 

[Amrûnril]

I think giving a tool proficiency by default, with an option to swap to a language of the player's choosing, makes more sense.

Adding languages to backgrounds feels like a solution in search of a problem.

The customization rules in the current PHB allow a total of two language and tool proficiencies (so 2 tools, 2 languages or one of each). I'm not sure why the playtest drops this flexibility, and I'd probably keep it in my own games.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

I think that these are just example backgrounds, that there will be very few example backgrounds in the coming PHB,

I would like to think that, but if that was the case, devoting four pages to examples in the UA seems a little excessive. I would assume we're going to see almost this exact list in the 2024 PHB.

 

[Charlaquin]

Races, classes and downtime.

Races do not grant languages in the packet (except dragonborn because reasons), and shouldn’t do so because languages are learned, not inborn. Downtime being the only way to gain languages seems limiting.

If (sample) backgrounds give languages in 2024, it should be only a few backgrounds, not all of them.

5/13 did. The UA version is a dramatic boost to that.

Backgrounds need to come with standardized benefits for custom to be the default. I would be alright with the standard benefit being your choice of two total between tools and languages, as it is in the 2014 rules, rather than always one language and one tool.

Then they should just "say pick a language," which is what the 2014 backgrounds did.

They do. The sample backgrounds are examples of fully-built backgrounds with all the choices made for you, so if you don’t want to make the choice yourself, you don’t have to.

The cultural and worldbuilding implications of the languages they're using aren't great.

They have no cultural and worldbuilding implications because they’re just examples of where you can put the 7 floating benefits a background gives you.

 

[Henadic Theologian]

In One D&D, some dated ideas are being dropped, including racial essentialism and the pernicious real world idea that even a drop of "impure" blood fundamentally changes a person. Eric's Grandma wouldn't want us to go down that rabbit hole, but if you're unfamiliar with this, look up "octoroon" on Wikipedia and be, I hope, a little shocked at an attitude that was still around at least as recently as 1974.

So while half-orcs and half-elves aren't their own special categories any more, One D&D walks back in the door with a related idea that I don't think anyone was asking for:

Certain cultures, by default, are associated with certain jobs in D&D. I don't think you'd see a modern ruleset try to codify a similar argument.

If you haven't read the One D&D Character Origins UA yet (and it seems that plenty of YouTubers haven't, for instance, although that doesn't stop them from making 45 minute videos expressing their opinions about it), every one of the new backgrounds includes a bonus language.

The new PHB is going to say these are just examples and players should be making custom backgrounds. But let's be honest, that's an option already, and most players just go with the example ones. So what WotC puts in the examples matters, both as a model and because probably most players will use them and never make a custom background of their own.

Some of the languages seem like reasonable expectations for most worlds. Entertainers all know Elvish, which suggests that the elves have created great works of music and drama that other peoples will either perform verbatim or learn so they can adapt them to their native cultures. Urchins know Common sign language (a new default language added to the list, which is a nice change that I approve of, especially as it carries with it the real world reality that not every deaf person uses the same sign language), which I guess they're using to communicate on the street -- which is takes sign language to a little bit of a weird place, but OK. Acolytes know Celestial, which feels a bit limited (do the Lawful Neutral gods really write their holy books in the language of the upper planes?), but I can see what they're going for.

But Criminals all know Thieves Cant, which feels like a pretty significant element, historically, being handed out a little too freely. (I know people will tell me that Thieves Cant never comes up in their game, but I use it all the time, including just recently when a group playing through Empire of the Ghouls made a wrong turn in the sewers and stumbled into thieves guild territory, shrugging and ignoring the cant signs painted on the walls. I use this PDF from the DMs Guild, and it's served me well in the often rogue-heavy games I run.) And notably, they're not giving out the other class language, Druidic, as part of a background.

Why does every guide speak Giant? Every pilgrim speaks Halfling? Every sailor can speak Primordial? These feel like big setting decisions and some of them turn ordinary zero level characters (remember, the background is what happens to them before they start adventuring) into something mythic. A sailor being able to speak to magical sea creatures in their own language belongs on Odysseus' ship, not on some random fishing trawler.

And then it starts to get a bit icky. Every charlatan knows Infernal, which suggests unpleasant things about my gnome illusionist. Every gladiator speaks Orcish, which -- despite them walking back previously problematic descriptions of orcs in the Character Races section, makes a strong contrary statement here.

What's more, this feels unnecessary. If groups aren't using languages "enough" for WotC, that's those groups' call. (I make language pretty important in my games, but we're now reaching the level in my main campaign where magic will make it never an issue again.) Under the current rules, anyone can learn additional languages during downtime, so they don't need them handed out willy-nilly at character creation.

This is just a beta test, but this is a decision that should be rolled back. If you agree, please consider including this in your feedback in September.

It's not icky, it's just that it's mostly just place holders, with only a few having any thought put into it at all.

 

[Sir Brennen]

Though I agree with the sentiment that the examples are just that, and things can be easily replaced, the examples as they are presented are problematic in some cases. This article goes into more detail on that (and some other issues with the UA races):

OneD&D and Designing Better Fantasy Calipers

The first playtest document from WOTC’s Marvel-like unveiling of new, “edition-less” D&D – currently titled OneD&D – is out, and is it ever bad. First, just a …

labyrinthlesbian.wordpress.com

 

[Henadic Theologian]

Races do not grant languages in the packet (except dragonborn because reasons), and shouldn’t do so because languages are learned, not inborn. Downtime being the only way to gain languages seems limiting.

Backgrounds need to come with standardized benefits for custom to be the default. I would be alright with the standard benefit being your choice of two total between tools and languages, as it is in the 2014 rules, rather than always one language and one tool.

They do. The sample backgrounds are examples of fully-built backgrounds with all the choices made for you, so if you don’t want to make the choice yourself, you don’t have to.

They have no cultural and worldbuilding implications because they’re just examples of where you can put the 7 floating benefits a background gives you.

Dragonborn are an exception because knowledge of Draconic IS INNATE to the Dragonborn, a divine blessing like trades are to Dwarves. Toss a bady Dragonborn into the woods to be raised by wolves, and it will still know Draconic magically. Think of it as a limited to Draconic, permanent comprehend languages cast on all Dragonborn that can't be disspelled.

But here is the thing, Innate knowledge of Draconic means you have to know what all the words actually mean. Like to know what the Draconic word for Mindflayer is, you have to know what Mindflayers are. Perfect Knowledge of a whole complex language comes with vaszts amoung of connected knowledge.