D&D (2024) Auto-succeed/fail on ability checks

[Smackpixi]

The strength 20 guy has to roll an easy check to make it across to the other side. The strength 3 guy has no chance whatsoever, even with a natural 20.

New rule says he succeeds with a 20. You don’t have to allow it, or allow the check cause DM can do whatever, but if you do that you’re overriding new rule.

 

[clearstream]

New rule says he succeeds with a 20. You don’t have to allow it, or allow the check cause DM can do whatever, but if you do that you’re overriding new rule.

Succeeds on 20... if he rolls. So it goes round and around

 

[Smackpixi]

The DMG says that the DM determines if a roll is impossible. It provides no limitations to that, which means that he can pick any criteria he wants,

yep, but can we agree that if DM denies a roll that has a DC to a character they are overriding the new 20 succeeds rule?

 

[Maxperson]

New rule says he succeeds with a 20.

This is false. It says quite a bit more than that. One of the things is that you only get to succeed on a 20 when you get to roll. End of story. The DM is the one who determines if it's appropriate/warranted, and the DMG gives him full ability to use any criteria he feels like to determine that.

You don’t have to allow it, or allow the check cause DM can do whatever, but if you do that you’re overriding new rule.

Nope! Completely false. I am using RAW.

 

[Maxperson]

yep, but can we agree that if DM denies a roll that has a DC to a character they are overriding the new 20 succeeds rule?

No. Not at all. The new rule is subordinate to the DMG rule. It only comes into effect if the DM allows the roll. Nothing is being overridden.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

Succeeds on 20... if he rolls. So it goes round and around

But this is exactly the annoying situation the new rule creates. The GM now has to adjudicate every bloody roll personally for every character, and there really isn't any guidance on how to do it, so the players reasonably might feel the they were denied a roll they "should" have gotten, or forced to roll on a trivial thing only to proceed to fail on natural one.

 

[Smackpixi]

you only get to succeed on a 20 when you get to roll.

Yes, but should not all things not impossible be rollable? if a thing is possible for someone, what’s you reason for denying the roll to others? Seems to me only DM fiat, I decided you can’t.

 

[Smackpixi]

But this is exactly the annoying situation the new rule creates. The GM now has to adjudicate every bloody roll personally for every character, and there really isn't any guidance on how to do it, so the players reasonably might feel the they were denied a roll they "should" have gotten, or forced to roll an a trivial thing only to proceed to fail on natural one.

No, it’s easy. Everyone gets to roll. Some have normal chances of success, some need a 20.

 

[Smackpixi]

No. Not at all. The new rule is subordinate to the DMG rule. It only comes into effect if the DM allows the roll. Nothing is being overridden.

What is you reasoning for denying the roll? They could succeed with a 20. the task is not simply impossible. Denying the roll is overriding player abilities (roll a 20) and pure DM fiat.

 

[Maxperson]

Yes, but should not all things not impossible be rollable?

Sure. But if the DM determines it impossible for one PC for whatever reason, then it's not rollable. As an example, if the DM decides that only someone proficient in arcana can make an attempt, then the PC without arcana cannot roll since it's impossible for him. The PC with arcana though, would get a roll.

if a thing is possible for someone, what’s you reason for denying the roll to others?

There are many possible reasons. The DM rates it as impossible for that character like the jump example I gave above. Someone with a 3 strength simply cannot ever go 21 feet no matter what the roll. Gating behind proficiency is a valid reason not to allow every PC to roll. Gating it behind a background. Suppose the PC is from an area of the world where certain information is flat out unknown, he might not be able to roll.

Seems to me only DM fiat, I decided you can’t.

All skill rolls are DM fiat and have been since 5e started. The DM has always decided if you get a roll or not.