D&D (2024) Inspiration From Nat 20 Will Bog Down The Game

[GMforPowergamers]

No, it means that I'll acknowledge that the meal is not for me, without advocating that the restaurant remove it from their menu entirely and thus deny it to those diners who do enjoy it.

I said it should be changed so that everyone would like it (well more people, lets be honest even if they gave out free money they would not please everyone)

the problem is it is NOT an optional mechanic when it is built into a race and a feat already. (not to mention crits) I think asking for things to be better isn't the same as saying "Take that slop off the menu". Again it is WotC asking for our feed back. It's fine to have different feedback. It's fine for one person to like something and another person to not like it.

I don't know where people get the idea that there should never be negative feed back... but I fear for the system we will get if they just get yes men answers.

 

[HammerMan]

So I ran the Emridy Medows adventure, highly customized and used this rule.

The big callout for me is that players used inspiration on their own. They even declared before rolling. They responded with glee when they got it via a roll of a crit.

I wasn’t expecting it to work but it worked better than I could have hoped.

I think new players will get it better then us vets.

 

[Bill Zebub]

I don't know why you are opposed to the feed back?

I’m not. I’m just not at all surprised by it, nor do I take it as a sign of poor design.

Years ago I tried to train a dog using the clicker method. That didn’t work at all and I gave up.

This year I tried again and it actually works great. I just wasn’t patient enough the first time, and expected results immediately.

 

[darjr]

Dogs different too, even if it was the same dog.

I think that applies here too.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

I’m not. I’m just not at all surprised by it, nor do I take it as a sign of poor design.

Years ago I tried to train a dog using the clicker method. That didn’t work at all and I gave up.

This year I tried again and it actually works great. I just wasn’t patient enough the first time, and expected results immediately.

This is a great analogy. Because for some reason dog trainers (especially online) seem to ALWAYS think that they have the 1 answer. I have had 5 dogs (my own not a parent, me) and I have not found almost anything that is 1 size fits all (also the dogs were all different breeds) i got 2 of them house broken, of the 3 that were not I trained 2 of them no problem and I'm having a lot of problem with my little stitch.

If how ever you tell a trainer that something didn't work (especially online) they will peacock up and say YOU must be doing it wrong (even if they can't show why)

my favorite example was 20 years ago when I got a puppy and he was having issues with jumping on me and my family when we came home. The things I was 'doing wrong' was giving him table scraps and letting him on the furniture... I told them "I guess if I am more of a jerk to him he wont be as excited to see me so that tracks" BTW we did train him with treats to not jump on us.

 

[Bill Zebub]

This is a great analogy. Because for some reason dog trainers (especially online) seem to ALWAYS think that they have the 1 answer.

Yes! That is perfect. They do all think they have the one answer.

But the one thing they will agree on is that, whatever method you use, don’t expect to see much behavior change after two sessions.

 

[Chaosmancer]

I don't know if it is a meme in 5e, in 3e when it was +1 it was... now all our experiences are different, but in my games any campaign with bless being used we mostly remember it (I wont say we NEVER forget bonuses) but since we use roll20 now and just have a check mark to hit for 'bless' when it is cast and to uncheck when it goes down nobody CAN forget it anymore.

But if you think the bless spell needs to be reworked so that it is more memorable I will 100% back that.

No, I don't think Bless needs reworked. My point is that forgetting a rule, especially a new rule, isn't uncommon.

my end goal is 1 of 2 options... either A) do not use it on main line effects (rolls of 20, human race, musician feat so far) or B ) make it more memorable and intuitive... making it a reroll is part of B.

I am fine with making it a re-roll, since that is how people use it, I think that is different from your complaints.

no, but if you listen to my (and others some in this very thread) feed back (and I hope WotC will listen in a few days) it isn't "we don't like inspiration" or "The first time we tried it we couldn't grasp it" its "We have tried over and over and it is both forgettable and not that big of a change so we don't often use it"

Okay, but here is the problem.

If your feedback is "We have been trying for years to remember inspiration, and we just can't." Then WoTC is going to go "Yes, we know this. That is why we changed the rules."

Your feedback needs to be only over this last week or two, where you are using the rules they changed. And additionally, since you are using a new rule, of course it is going to have hiccups. But you DID remember it, it may have been afterwards, but it was progress.

So, tell them they are on the right track, but haven't made it yet. But I don't think acting like nothing has changed is terribly accurate to the playtest.

 

[Bill Zebub]

No, I don't think Bless needs reworked. My point is that forgetting a rule, especially a new rule, isn't uncommon.



I am fine with making it a re-roll, since that is how people use it, I think that is different from your complaints.



Okay, but here is the problem.

If your feedback is "We have been trying for years to remember inspiration, and we just can't." Then WoTC is going to go "Yes, we know this. That is why we changed the rules."

Your feedback needs to be only over this last week or two, where you are using the rules they changed. And additionally, since you are using a new rule, of course it is going to have hiccups. But you DID remember it, it may have been afterwards, but it was progress.

So, tell them they are on the right track, but haven't made it yet. But I don't think acting like nothing has changed is terribly accurate to the playtest.

Six months from now, one of these posts will read: “I keep forgetting that my Fighter can now do all these superhuman, epic things that would turn Wizards green with envy if only I could remember to use them. So I guess these new rules suck.”

 

[GMforPowergamers]

Yes! That is perfect. They do all think they have the one answer.

But the one thing they will agree on is that, whatever method you use, don’t expect to see much behavior change after two sessions.

I wish that was true there are youtube videos that say "I never did anything and look at how he listens"

 

[GMforPowergamers]

If your feedback is "We have been trying for years to remember inspiration, and we just can't." Then WoTC is going to go "Yes, we know this. That is why we changed the rules."

Your feedback needs to be only over this last week or two, where you are using the rules they changed. And additionally, since you are using a new rule, of course it is going to have hiccups. But you DID remember it, it may have been afterwards, but it was progress.

So, tell them they are on the right track, but haven't made it yet. But I don't think acting like nothing has changed is terribly accurate to the playtest.

my feed back will be as detailed as they allow for