D&D (2024) Auto-succeed/fail on ability checks

[Parmandur]

And do you think people who didn’t understand the old rule will do that?

Furthermore, it requires constant case by case monitoring of every roll for every character. I simply don’t see how this is an improvement.

Who didn't understand the old rule...? Just because people use house rules doesn't mean that they don't unthe rules...as evidenced by the normal use of gating from everything I've seen l, despite the rules being a mite fuzzy.

 

[Minigiant]

I watch a YT video and it more or less revealed my thoughts on this topic.

If 1DND comes with guidelines and examples of ability checks and guidelines on adjudication in the PHB and DMG, this is fine. Even better if there are variants: LOTR level tests, MCU level tests, One Piece tests.

But if it does the looser goosey style where people are not concrete on perception, this would be not great in non-long-running tables.

 

[Reynard]

Yes, DM fiat is centrsl to how D&D works. The tule is that the DM uses fiat to determine if a check is warranted, and gating behind proficiency is one of the main ways this is done. Simple, common sense gating in fact eliminates any problem that is being theorycrafted in this thread, and yeah, DM fiat is how it works. That's how all of this works.

It is strange how you get from a single mention for a tool proficiency and a few examples in official adventures to "one of the main ways." It's one of the ways you do it, I expect informed by a couple decades of d20 games where it was much more hard coded into the system. It's fine that you do it, and it makes sense in some cases, but I don't understand your assertion that it's the default assumed rule despite the rules not focusing on it.

 

[Parmandur]

It is strange how you get from a single mention for a tool proficiency and a few examples in official adventures to "one of the main ways." It's one of the ways you do it, I expect informed by a couple decades of d20 games where it was much more hard coded into the system. It's fine that you do it, and it makes sense in some cases, but I don't understand your assertion that it's the default assumed rule despite the rules not focusing on it.

I mean, it's how yhe designers play the game when they do so publicly, so it is definitely RAI. It is in the rulebooks, but it is very much meant to be a "mix to taste" deal...which is whybit completely fixes the issue some are worried about for the autosuccess mechanic. If gating is used, it can literally never be a narrative problem for the DM's taste thar a PC succeeds or fails on a role.

My only real longterm pre-5E experience was 3E, incidentally, which is where I learned to play, and gating was definitely not the norm there. Higher numbers would put certain rolls beyond certain characters.

 

[Reynard]

This isn't a case of opposition. It's a case of the PHB says you don't roll when something is automatically successful or unsuccessful, then leaves it to the DMG for the instructions on how to determine those things. That makes it subordinate by its nature.

I am pretty sure the only thing the books have to say on the subject is "specific trumps general."

 

[jmartkdr2]

Speaking for myself, I feel that the existing best practices are going to keep working fine in the games I actually play. All the scenarios where this change creates a problem feel like weird edge cases to me, unless the dm is already calling for impossible rolls on the regular.

 

[Maxperson]

I am pretty sure the only thing the books have to say on the subject is "specific trumps general."

@Lanefan and I were discussing ability checks. The PHB rule is that you do not roll if the outcome is doubt, and the DMG guideline adds in the requirement for failure to have meaning. Nothing released to date(One UA) contradicts those rules, so Specific v. General does not apply.

If you get a roll a 1 is auto failure and a 20 is auto success. If you do not get a roll, then those things don't apply.

 

[CleverNickName]

Maybe I'm doing it wrong, but I use dice as both a resolution mechanic and a storytelling device. Dice add probability and randomness, sure, but I also use them to add tension and doubt in the mind of the player.

My player will say something like "I search the wall for secret doors, using a candle to check for drafts." And even though I know that there are absolutely no secret doors anywhere in this dungeon, I am still going to call for the player to roll. I want the player to wonder, and I want them to keep wondering long after that roll is made.

 

[Reynard]

I mean, it's how yhe designers play the game when they do so publicly, so it is definitely RAI.

You have brought this up a couple times so I am going to push back a little. 1) What percentage of people who play 5e do you think watch Crawford play D&D? and 2) That doesn't say anything about RAI. For example, we know Gygax ran AD&D completely differently than it was presented in the DMG, and there are many stories of other designers running their own games "wrong."

It is just as accurate to say that in 5e "proficiency gating" is a minor, niche, specific tool in the GM's toolbox that is primarily intended for tool proficiency use.

EDIT: And yes, i know i am harping on this one point, and no,I have no idea why. It's not like it affects my game in any way. So, you know, carry on.

 

[Parmandur]

You have brought this up a couple times so I am going to push back a little. 1) What percentage of people who play 5e do you think watch Crawford play D&D? and 2) That doesn't say anything about RAI. For example, we know Gygax ran AD&D completely differently than it was presented in the DMG, and there are many stories of other designers running their own games "wrong."

It is just as accurate to say that in 5e "proficiency gating" is a minor, niche, specific tool in the GM's toolbox that is primarily intended for tool proficiency use.

EDIT: And yes, i know i am harping on this one point, and no,I have no idea why. It's not like it affects my game in any way. So, you know, carry on.

I mean, a h6ge percentage watch Criticsl Role, which also uses gating, and apparently a huge number already yse autosuccess...which beeds gating to work. I am confident that it is standard.