D&D (2024) When are we getting the second playtest document?

[UngainlyTitan]

I suspect they're worrying about folks min-maxing those rules, but off the top of my head, I don't see any egregious ways to break things by allowing that. If you haven't submitted a survey yet, I'd put that in the big block at the end as a suggestion.

I am of the strong opinion that races should have inate and cultural traits and that the latter should be select one from a short list. Like Dwarves could have Forge Wise, Heavy Armour prof and a couple of others, pick one and these could be swappable or else nominate a traits that are swappable and make it so. I did write that up in the survey.

Edit: Spelling

 

[Levistus's_Leviathan]

I am of the strong opinion that races should have inate and cultural traits and that the latter should be select one from a short list. Like Dwarves could have Force Wise, Heavy Armour prof and a couple of others, pick one and these could be swappable or else nominate a traits that are swappable and make it so. I did write that up in the survey.

And I strongly disagree. Culture should not be connected to racial mechanics at all. It should be separate and available to be chosen by any race. Tying culture to racial mechanics is an awful decision.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

You haven't heard of the staggeringly precise quantifications of how Black ancestry granted differing civil rights, both in the U.S. and South Africa (and I suspect, elsewhere), along with the incredibly racist bases for such reasoning?

What? I said I’ve never heard someone suggest that D&D half elves and half orcs represent anything like the blood quantum ideology or anything associated with it.

I hear you on wanting to feel represented in D&D, but does that necessarily have to come with being multi-racial gives a character mechanical benefits distinct from either parent?

I mean, yes, frankly.

Imagine a game in which different cultures have different stats. Now imagine that a marginalized culture that you are a part of is not given stats in a new version of the game, even though that culture’s history in the game is basically as long as the history of the game. Instead, you’re told by the game that your identity can be reduced to “looks however you want, but uses all the mechanics of one neighboring culture”.

Like I genuinely don’t see how any of what I’m saying is even controversial.

It's not my personal experience, so I'm asking and listening here: Are the specific half-ancestry mechanical differences required to tell those stories and represent characters of that sort of background?

Yes, effectively.

Things that you “reflavor” into the game only exist at your table. They aren’t part of The Game. They therefor aren’t part of the culture of the game. When the game books remove something mechanically, but give you permission you never needed anyway to describe your character as that thing they’ve removed mechanically, they have erased that thing.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

What? I said I’ve never heard someone suggest that D&D half elves and half orcs represent anything like the blood quantum ideology or anything associated with it.

I apologize, I misunderstood you.

I do think this is WotC is heading off anticipated trouble, rather than trouble that's already here. But I think the blow-ups over the drow and orcs are just the beginning and I have a hard time seeing the change to half-races as anything other than them trying to prevent a blow-up over those rules.

Imagine a game in which different cultures have different stats. Now imagine that a marginalized culture that you are a part of is not given stats in a new version of the game, even though that culture’s history in the game is basically as long as the history of the game. Instead, you’re told by the game that your identity can be reduced to “looks however you want, but uses all the mechanics of one neighboring culture”.

Like I genuinely don’t see how any of what I’m saying is even controversial.

Yes, effectively.

Things that you “reflavor” into the game only exist at your table. They aren’t part of The Game. They therefor aren’t part of the culture of the game. When the game books remove something mechanically, but give you permission you never needed anyway to describe your character as that thing they’ve removed mechanically, they have erased that thing.

An eloquent and compelling argument. We'll see if WotC is listening.

 

[Parmandur]

I think it's less about mechanics and more about recognition and validity. If only "whole" or "pure" races are presented (in a game that has traditionally had half-races), then it suggests that those people of mixed ancestry don't count and even don't exist. As I suggested earlier, they could have simply let people switch out one or a couple of abilities rather than create half-elves and half-orcs and even that would be enough to show that mixed ancestry is a thing that is recognized as valid.

The new rules provide more options for hybrid characters, not fewer.

 

[MockingBird]

What? I said I’ve never heard someone suggest that D&D half elves and half orcs represent anything like the blood quantum ideology or anything associated with it.

I mean, yes, frankly.

Imagine a game in which different cultures have different stats. Now imagine that a marginalized culture that you are a part of is not given stats in a new version of the game, even though that culture’s history in the game is basically as long as the history of the game. Instead, you’re told by the game that your identity can be reduced to “looks however you want, but uses all the mechanics of one neighboring culture”.

Like I genuinely don’t see how any of what I’m saying is even controversial.

Yes, effectively.

Things that you “reflavor” into the game only exist at your table. They aren’t part of The Game. They therefor aren’t part of the culture of the game. When the game books remove something mechanically, but give you permission you never needed anyway to describe your character as that thing they’ve removed mechanically, they have erased that thing.

I agree whole heartedly with you. I think the way they are going about it is not good.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

I apologize, I misunderstood you.

It’s cool. I actually kinda feel like the proposed rules are closer to Blood quantum, actually. Doesn’t matter what the other parents background is, you are always one race and only one race.

Just one drop is all it takes.

No. Absolutely not. I am both things. The end.

I do think this is WotC is heading off anticipated trouble, rather than trouble that's already here. But I think the blow-ups over the drow and orcs are just the beginning and I have a hard time seeing the change to half-races as anything other than them trying to prevent a blow-up over those rules.

Yeah, absolutely. And I think they are within reach of rules that won’t cause the same problems.
Just make it so size can be chosen from either race regardless of your “main” mechanical race, and be proactive and explicit that you can swap proficiencies, and it’s 90% there.

An updated custom lineage ruleset that includes a table of existing races traits that you can use to make a lineage would work too, frankly.

An eloquent and compelling argument. We'll see if WotC is listening.

Thank you.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

The new rules provide more options for hybrid characters, not fewer.

In the same way that getting rid of race mechanics would provide more options.

As it is, there aren’t hybrid characters. There are just elfs with tusks.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

The Star Wars Saga Edition model for creating new “near human” species is a great mechanical model for making a mixed race character.

Near-Humans

Reference Book: Star Wars Saga Edition Unknown Regions Throughout much of the galaxy, Humans are the most commonly encountered Species. Not surprisingly, after a millennium of interstellar travel and colonization, an enormous number of humanoids share a common genetic code. Commonly called...

swse.fandom.com

 

[Parmandur]

In the same way that getting rid of race mechanics would provide more options.

I mean, that might be a good idea, frankly. Just expand Background more and drip "Race."