Dragonlance Dragonlance "Reimagined".

[DarkCrisis]

he was evil by D&D standards... doing evil is evil

yes but those intentions don't make you good

knock it off you know that Evil acts make you evil in D&D

Not according to the officially licensed D&D Product Dragonlance. I'd even say Faerun as well. Especially Krynn though. You have the 3 G/N/E alignment sibling magic gods who get a long just fine when together.

Having read a ton of D&D fiction from Krynn to Faerun, the gods are like the classical greek and norse etc gods. They aren't "pure good" or "pure evil" they act like people with a ton of power. Reading up on gods like Zeus and the other greek gods lately, and they were JERKS. Even the "good" ones like Athena and Apollo. Same with the Norse gods.

Zeus and Odin in D&D are considered "good gods" and they had a problem with going around and raping not just people but animals as well. Heck, Zeus hated humans at first.

People aren't so black and white. I mean, i guess they can be in a game. Especially if its your game/table.

For a game that even it's inventor bent and broke the rules and even said "do what you think seems fun", you sure are clinging to that alignment chart that everyone has agreed hasn't made sense since 1E and most just used as a guideline anyways.

If you find Gods and people need to be completely black and white as per their alignments, more power to you. I, and apparently people who have worked on D&D, find it more fun to use a more grey area.

Heck current designers are looking to toss it all completely anyways.

 

[Vaalingrade]

I feel like there's a vast, airy gulf between 'people don't need to be completely black and white' and 'sometimes people just commit atrocities, but that's okay; they're still good people if they can justify it'.

 

[the Jester]

Having read a ton of D&D fiction from Krynn to Faerun, the gods are like the classical greek and norse etc gods. They aren't "pure good" or "pure evil" they act like people with a ton of power. Reading up on gods like Zeus and the other greek gods lately, and they were JERKS. Even the "good" ones like Athena and Apollo. Same with the Norse gods.

Zeus and Odin in D&D are considered "good gods" and they had a problem with going around and raping not just people but animals as well. Heck, Zeus hated humans at first.

Which is why trying to ascribe D&D alignments to mythological gods without a lot of research and thought might be a bad idea. Or maybe the D&D version of e.g. Zeus really is CG and didn't do all those evil things. Or maybe he reformed at a later date that is pre-statting.

I think defending mass murder- and make no mistake, that's the Cataclysm in a nutshell- as "good" is always going to fail. If you find that mass murder is somewhere in the grey area, well, we disagree about the borders of that grey.

 

[DarkCrisis]

Which is why trying to ascribe D&D alignments to mythological gods without a lot of research and thought might be a bad idea. Or maybe the D&D version of e.g. Zeus really is CG and didn't do all those evil things. Or maybe he reformed at a later date that is pre-statting.

I think defending mass murder- and make no mistake, that's the Cataclysm in a nutshell- as "good" is always going to fail. If you find that mass murder is somewhere in the grey area, well, we disagree about the borders of that grey.

I suppose it’s easier on the imagination when you’ve been raised as a part of a major religion that has a “good god” who did something similar when the whole world was considered corrupted beyond saving.

Falling into that whole “the gods know better than us mere mortals can comprehend.”

 

[the Jester]

Not according to the officially licensed D&D Product Dragonlance. I'd even say Faerun as well. Especially Krynn though. You have the 3 G/N/E alignment sibling magic gods who get a long just fine when together.

Also- I don't think "We didn't really think this through" is the same as "We endorse this approach". And I'm pretty sure that, at least for DL, there was a lot of unconscious bias inserted based on the faiths of the creators that came out in DragonLance. The Cataclysm being an analog to the Flood, to point at the germane one. Now, I don't want to get into the weeds of religious discussion here, but I feel like there was an unconscious bias toward "it must be okay because it's analogous to something in our faith" that just doesn't hold up.

EDIT: Aaaand you addressed this above. Too slow, I am!

 

[Fifth Element]

Thanos would literally murder people with his own hands. Literally murders his own daughter(s). Thanos knew he was doing bad things. He admits to it. But he does it for the greater good. "Im a bad person who must do bad things to save the whole." The KP did not think this way.

By your own Kingpriest argument, he wasn't evil, he was DOING evil things. Everything you said about the Kingpriest also applies to Thanos.

 

[Fifth Element]

Having read a ton of D&D fiction from Krynn to Faerun, the gods are like the classical greek and norse etc gods. They aren't "pure good" or "pure evil" they act like people with a ton of power.

People with a ton of power who use it to kill untold thousands of people to accomplish a goal that they had the power to accomplish without such egregious loss of life can only be described as evil. That's the point. It's not that they're not always perfectly good. It's that they comitted an act so evil they are irredeemable. Doing such a thing in D&D results in an alignment shift. You can't call yourself good after committing such an act, even once.

 

[Fifth Element]

I suppose it’s easier on the imagination when you’ve been raised as a part of a major religion that has a “good god” who did something similar when the whole world was considered corrupted beyond saving.

Falling into that whole “the gods know better than us mere mortals can comprehend.”

Please keep real-world religion out of the discussion.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

Not according to the officially licensed D&D Product Dragonlance.

it isn't out yet... at best you have a 3rd party book from 2 editions ago to go by,

Having read a ton of D&D fiction from Krynn to Faerun, the gods are like the classical greek and norse etc gods. They aren't "pure good" or "pure evil" they act like people with a ton of power.

and peopel who commit evil acts on the regular are... EVIL

Reading up on gods like Zeus and the other greek gods lately, and they were JERKS.

no real world religions please

Even the "good" ones like Athena and Apollo. Same with the Norse gods.

no real world religions please

Zeus and Odin in D&D are considered "good gods"

no real world religions please.

People aren't so black and white.

Genocide is pretty black and white... murder (especially cold blooded premeditated) is pretty black and white

clinging to that alignment chart that everyone has agreed hasn't made sense since 1E and most just used as a guideline anyways.

I'm not clining to it... in many threads even this one I said we should ditch it.

take the GOOD alignment away and all the arguments endd... they are the best of a bad lot but no one is good

If you find Gods and people need to be completely black and white as per their alignments, more power to you. I, and apparently people who have worked on D&D, find it more fun to use a more grey area.

does that include this edition>

Heck current designers are looking to toss it all completely anyways.

and that solves the isse

 

[GMforPowergamers]

I suppose it’s easier on the imagination when you’ve been raised as a part of a major religion that has a “good god” who did something similar when the whole world was considered corrupted beyond saving.

Falling into that whole “the gods know better than us mere mortals can comprehend.”

no real world religions