D&D 5E Megadungeon delving as a campaign’s core; is it compatible with modern play?

[CreamCloud0]

The core aspect that players play DnD for has changed since the early days, while I myself am relatively new participant in the hobby in the grand scheme of things(My first real foray was with the 5e starter set) what I’ve gleaned from discussions is that the focus has shifted from dungeon delving as the core of the game to conquer the challenges presented within, where your character was more a faceless avatar for the player to interact through, to more modern playstyles where it’s more about telling/discovering the story of the characters you’ve created (not a criticism just an observation.)

Dungeons in the old games were sprawling labyrinths filled with traps, monsters and enemies, magic, puzzles, secrets and a whole host of other obstacles and megadungeons were the biggest baddest ones of them all where you could explore for months and still not discover everything it had to reveal, only coming out from underground for more supplies, offload the piles of gold that you couldn’t carry any more of or training your new character levels as that was a thing back then.

But my point is this: could megadungeons be made into viable environments for the current more character-focused playerbase, is it possible to synergise the two gameplay styles when the map only expands down instead of out and caverns and corridors are 90% of what you see instead of the horizons of forests, mountains, giant cities and frozen tundras? A game where you know you’re going to be coming back through these places over and over so instead of just casting flight on the party to cross that ravine you hire carpenters to build a sturdy retractable bridge, set up a protected outpost as a safe retreat in the monster infested halls and build a rapport with the inhabitants of the dungeon town every time you pass by? Do you mug that wandering salesman for all they’ve got or point them towards the corpses of your latest encounter saying they’re free to salvage anything of interest to them?

So I’d like to hear your thoughts on the viability of megadungeons as the setting of modern games, is it possible? Do you like the idea? How would you implement it in your own game?

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

It's an interesting question- a lot of it depends on how you are defining "modern play," I guess, and also what you want from your megadungeon.

You can run a megadungeon in 5e. That's not an issue. You can run a megadungeon using more character-focused narratives, as well; there is a long history going back to the 70s of megadungeons being used not just for Gygaxian skilled play, but also to explore more character-driven arcs (you can see echoes of this in the factions in B4, for example).

That said, megadungeons traditionally tax the character's resources in way that most modern play is not ... not as familiar with. Elements like traps, darkness, limited supplies, and availability (or lack thereof) of healing factors into the classic ideal of the traditional megadungeon. While you can certainly incorporate character elements into that (and it will work well), if you are playing in 5e, you will likely need to tinker with the rules, or use variant rules (the various so-called "gritty" rules) in order to get a real megadungeon feel.

Simply put- the power levels of 5e characters is not conducive to megadungeons, and will require some tinkering and thought.

 

[WarDriveWorley]

I'm currently running a home built mega dungeon (that's the extra dimensional library of a Lich) in my main campaign and it's very viable.

For clarification the campaign is a 1 to 20th level one I wrote. The characters are currently 10th level and met when they were 2nd level (I ran an individual session 0 for each player as an individual adventure which explained why they were contacted to find the library). The first part of the campaign was the characters finding out about the library and traveling to it. They reached the entrance when they were 5th level and have been exploring the depths since.

When designing the actual library I made sure to design it where there are options for social interactions along with options to resupply, sell/buy magic, and downtime.

As an example I wrote in a small tribe of Azer that were once magically compelled to help the Lich, but at some point they were able to gain their freedom. The Azer have taken over a corner of the third level and are mining a small attached pocket of the elemental plane of earth (the Library is an extra-dimensional one that's mostly cut off from other dimensions, but has small attached pockets of other planes fused to it). The players managed to earn their trust by ridding the level of a cursed sword that was whispering corrupt suggestions to the Azer clergy. As a result the characters can interact with the Azer for food, items, and magic.

Another example happened on the 12th level of the Library. There was a decent size room where the Lich had bound some devils. The party defeated the devils and cleansed the room and when they checked their mapp found the room was a major choke point between the multiple levels. As a result they spent some time outfitting the room as a shelter and reinforced it so it's almost an underground keep. The characters have warded it and tend to fall back to it if they need to research, repair, or perform other downtime activities. This "keep" has become well known enough that it's attracted other residents of the Library that aren't thralls of the Lich.

So yeah they can work.

 

[iserith]

The core aspect that players play DnD for has changed since the early days, while I myself am relatively new participant in the hobby in the grand scheme of things(My first real foray was with the 5e starter set) what I’ve gleaned from discussions is that the focus has shifted from dungeon delving as the core of the game to conquer the challenges presented within, where your character was more a faceless avatar for the player to interact through, to more modern playstyles where it’s more about telling/discovering the story of the characters you’ve created (not a criticism just an observation.)

These things are fully compatible. The "story" is whatever happens during play. If you want your character tied to the adventuring location in some way that is to be explored, then you can work with the DM to connect the character to that adventuring location prior to play. Personally, I don't find this to be necessary, but I understand a lot of people are enamored with their backstories. As long as it plays into the adventure location and isn't some prose written in a vacuum with no specific connection to the world, then it should show up in the game during play.

Also, use Inspiration to reward players portraying their characters' personality traits, ideals, bonds, and flaws.

 

[Micah Sweet]

It's an interesting question- a lot of it depends on how you are defining "modern play," I guess, and also what you want from your megadungeon.

You can run a megadungeon in 5e. That's not an issue. You can run a megadungeon using more character-focused narratives, as well; there is a long history going back to the 70s of megadungeons being used not just for Gygaxian skilled play, but also to explore more character-driven arcs (you can see echoes of this in the factions in B4, for example).

That said, megadungeons traditionally tax the character's resources in way that most modern play is not ... not as familiar with. Elements like traps, darkness, limited supplies, and availability (or lack thereof) of healing factors into the classic ideal of the traditional megadungeon. While you can certainly incorporate character elements into that (and it will work well), if you are playing in 5e, you will likely need to tinker with the rules, or use variant rules (the various so-called "gritty" rules) in order to get a real megadungeon feel.

Simply put- the power levels of 5e characters is not conducive to megadungeons, and will require some tinkering and thought.

I agree. A variant that takes resource management more serious than WotC 5e (like Level Up) would be needed to feel like a megadungeon, regardless of what playstyle you ultimately use it for.

 

[Umbran]

Sure. Have a campaign set in the Underdark. Done.

 

[Oofta]

I think many of the things that work (or don't) for a more "typical" campaign can also work for a mega dungeon. In some ways the default assumptions in the rules are tilted towards dungeon crawls. A mega dungeon can have the same factions, intrigue and interplay if your players are interested in it. The location and environment will never get people to cooperate all of the time. If I were to do it I'd think long and hard about how to set it up to make it logical. Who built it, what to the inhabitants eat, how can I set up a variety of encounters. Give at least a nod towards reality or just lean into the "it's magic" aspect of play, totally up to you. A lot of video games don't have particularly deep lore about their worlds and can be quite illogical but they can still be fun.

As long as your clear up front about what your thinking of doing and your players are supportive, I see no issue with it.

 

[Sacrosanct]

Yeah, a lot of what Snarf said. Of course you can do a lot of things, but in general, the playstyle is different. Resource management and player skill were more focused on back then, compared to now. When resolving a puzzle or trap is based on a roll, that gets old and boring a lot faster than if you yourself is figuring out a puzzle or trap. So naturally the frequency we see those in actual modern game play is reduced than what we saw in the 80s. Same with encounters. Modern philosophy (again, speaking in generalizations) has an unwritten rule that every encounter needs to be beatable, and that most certainly wasn't true back then. In fact, part of the resource management/puzzle aspect of gaming back then was deciding which encounters to fight and which to try to avoid. Remember, the reward (xp) was in the treasure, not the monster.

So while you can play a megadungeon in modern 5e, you need to keep these things in mind, find players who might like that style, and make adjustments accordingly.

 

[el-remmen]

Yes and you don't need to tweak anything.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

The core aspect that players play DnD for has changed since the early days, while I myself am relatively new participant in the hobby in the grand scheme of things(My first real foray was with the 5e starter set) what I’ve gleaned from discussions is that the focus has shifted from dungeon delving as the core of the game to conquer the challenges presented within, where your character was more a faceless avatar for the player to interact through, to more modern playstyles where it’s more about telling/discovering the story of the characters you’ve created (not a criticism just an observation.)

Dungeons in the old games were sprawling labyrinths filled with traps, monsters and enemies, magic, puzzles, secrets and a whole host of other obstacles and megadungeons were the biggest baddest ones of them all where you could explore for months and still not discover everything it had to reveal, only coming out from underground for more supplies, offload the piles of gold that you couldn’t carry any more of or training your new character levels as that was a thing back then.

But my point is this: could megadungeons be made into viable environments for the current more character-focused playerbase, is it possible to synergise the two gameplay styles when the map only expands down instead of out and caverns and corridors are 90% of what you see instead of the horizons of forests, mountains, giant cities and frozen tundras? A game where you know you’re going to be coming back through these places over and over so instead of just casting flight on the party to cross that ravine you hire carpenters to build a sturdy retractable bridge, set up a protected outpost as a safe retreat in the monster infested halls and build a rapport with the inhabitants of the dungeon town every time you pass by? Do you mug that wandering salesman for all they’ve got or point them towards the corpses of your latest encounter saying they’re free to salvage anything of interest to them?

So I’d like to hear your thoughts on the viability of megadungeons as the setting of modern games, is it possible? Do you like the idea? How would you implement it in your own game?

I love the idea of a campaign based on reclaiming a “mega dungeon” that was once a great citystate.